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From ANIMATRONICS-L Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:55:01 local - Jan 2002 from fatcity.com
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To: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com
From: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com (Animatronics Mailing List)
Subject: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 005

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Tue, 06 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 5
------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Stokes basil@best.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:58:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Some questions to start things rolling

Hello!

I'm excited about this new list! I will certainly try not to be a "lurker"
but my main contributions to it until I get up to speed will be questions.
My experience is with Muppet-style video puppets, and also CGI animation
and real-time performance animation character creation (in which math expressions take the place of physical connections and wires).

Please don't be insulted by my lack of knowledge. Here are a few to
start with:

1) What would be a good supply list for someone just starting out, wanting
to work up to building remote controlled facial animatronics?
(ie. what variety of servos, motors, metal parts, radios, glues/cements, tools,, etc)

3) Are there good books/videos on this subject that you know of?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Brian

=============================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:30:49 -0800
Subject: Silicone Skin

My plaster mold of a plastiline sculpture has survived the first casting
of builders silicone. The colors available are black, bronze, white,
brown, and clear. The first test was with bronze. Next time I will
make it thinner. This one is about 1/2" thick. Total cost for a human
front half of a human head: $8.00
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR DevilinGR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:19:17 EST
Subject: Introducing myself

WELCOME everyone to the animatronics mailing list! : )
I would like to encourage everyone to mail at least one post to introduce
yourself and explain your interest/experience in animatronics. That way we can
get a better idea of who to ask for what!
My name is Scott McDonnell and I live in Western Michigan. My interest in
animatronics has spawned for many years and taking different shapes and forms.
Mainly I have decided that I want to start my own studio to build animatronics
exhibits, not for movie special effects. I am pretty much a self-proclaimed
expert in the mechanical area and electronics involved in animatronics. I am
pretty weak right now in the sculpting, molding, casting etc.. area. But, I
know alot of techniues that I've tried in one way or another, I guess it's the
artistic skills I am lacking. LOL
I'm the guy to ask for mechanical advice, electronic advice, or resources of
information. When the activity increses a bit, I will post some really general
but helpful links and resources to help the new guys get started. Thanks, and
let's keep the list alive!

------------------------------

From: Devilin GR DevilinGR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:45:24 EST
Subject: Re: Some questions to start things rolling

Replies are in CAPS :)

n a message dated 98-01-06 17:33:30 EST, you write:

<< Hello!
I'm excited about this new list! I will certainly try not to be a "lurker"
but my main contributions to it until I get up to speed will be questions.
My experience is with Muppet-style video puppets, and also CGI animation
and real-time performance animation character creation (in which math
expressions take the place of physical connections and wires).
DON'T BE SILLY, THIS IS EXACTLY THE EXPERIENCE SOME OF US NEED, ME FOR
EXAMPLE.

Please don't be insulted by my lack of knowledge. Here are a few to
start with:
1) What would be a good supply list for someone just starting out, wanting
to work up to building remote controlled facial animatronics?
(ie. what variety of servos, motors, metal parts, radios, glues/cements,
tools,, etc)
SUPPLY LIST? YOU MEAN KIND OF AN INVENTORY TO HAVE IN YOUR WORKSHOP? WELL,
HERE'S WHAT I HAVE IN MY MECHANICAL INVENTORY:
1. A TON OF TUBES CONTAINING METAL RODS OF ALL SORTS
2. JUST ONE 2-CHANNEL RADIO (TO TEST OUT ANIMATIONS)
3. A COUPLE OF SERVOS RANGING FROM SUB-MICRO TO MEGA (ALSO TO TEST OUT
ANIMATIONS)
4. SHEETS OF PLASTIC IN ALL TYPES OF FORMS
THAT MAY SEEM SHORT, BUT THOSE ARE THE ONLY THINGS REALLY DEDICATED TO JUST
ANIMATRONICS. I BASICALLY JUST GO THROUGH HARDWARE STORES, DEPARTMENT STORES,
ELECTRONIC STORES, TOY STORES, AND BUY ANYTHING THAT I SEE THAT MAKES ME GO
"HMM, I COULD MODIFY THAT TO DO THIS..." MY TOOL INVENTORY GROWS AND GROWS AS
I FIND A NEED FOR SOMETHING. I AM ALSO PLANNING TO BUY A HUGE STOCK OF
LAWNMOWER THROTTLE CABLE, SINCE THESE ARE THE BEST CABLES I HAVE FOUND TO WORK
WITH ANIMATRONICS. MY TOOLS CONSIST OF SOME STRANGE THINGS TOO, LIKE A CAN
OPENER AND A NAILFILE, SPOONS...LIKE I SAID, IT GROWS AS I FIND I NEED
SOMETHING.

2) When thinking about building a creature, what are some guidelines for
determining where to put servos? I can imagine simple rotations like
eyeballs, neck turns, but how do you map a server to a deformation, such as a
mouth?
WELL, THE BIGGEST GUIDLINE IS THAT SERVOS PROVIDE ROTATIONAL FORCE. SO YOU
NEED TO DETERMINE HOW TO LINK THE SERVOS ROTATIONAL FORCE TO THE FORCE YOU
NEED. AND YOU NEED TO FIND THE SHORTEST MOST DIRECT ROUTE TO TRANSFERRING THAT
FORCE. ANOTHER PROBLEM YOU FACE IS SIZE. THERE ARE ALOT OF PLACES YOU CAN'T
PUT A SERVO. I USE CABLE CONTROL FOR THAT. MOST OF MY DESIGNS HAVE A BANK OF
SERVOS JUST A TAD MORE POWERFUL THAN I'LL NEED THAT WAY THEY CAN OVERCOME THE
FRICTION OF THE CABLES. THE CABLE ROUTE IS THE WAY I CHOOSE FOR THE MOUTH.

3) Are there good books/videos on this subject that you know of?
HERE ARE SOME BOOKS AND VIDEOS I KNOW OF:
1. WATCH MOVIE MAGIC AND TAPE IT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, IT'S ON THE DISCOVERY
CHANNEL
2. BOOK: NO STRINGS ATTACHED, BY MATT BACON
3. BOOK: ILLUSIONS OF LIFE:LIFELIKE ROBOTICS, BY GENE W. POOR, FROM CREATIVE
LERANING SYSTEMS
4. THERE IS A SERIES OF VIDEOS AVAILIBLE FROM EFFECTIVE ENGINEERING AT
http://www.vigra.com/effective/
5. ON MY BOOKSHELF ARE A TON OF BOOKS ON PUPPET MAKING, ELECTRONIC CIRCUIT
COOKBOOKS, PROPMAKING BOOKS, FX MAKEUP, BOOKS ON DIFFERENT MATERIALS LIKE
FOAM, PAPIER MACHE, FIBERGLASS. I ALSO ORDER TECH SHEETS ON MATERIALS FROM
MANUFACTURES WHEN I CAN. I HAVE BOOKS AND CATALOGS ON TAXIDERMY, DOLLMAKING,
ARTS AND CRAFTS, MECHANICAL PARTS, ELECTROMECHANICAL SURPLUS STORES..
LEARN TO BE A PACKRAT, YOU WILL FIND A NEED FOR EVERYTHING SOMEDAY. MY PROBLEM
IS TRYING TO KEEP THIS STUFF ALL ORGANIZED SINCE THEY ARE COMPLETELY VARIANT!
HOPE THIS EITHER HELPS, OR HELPS YOU FORMULATE SOME MORE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.
Thanks in advance for any insights.

Brian >>

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 005
=============================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Wed, 07 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 6

From: lyndellt@juno.com
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:55:07 EST
Subject: Intro & Muscle wire

Hi,
My name is Lyndell. I am a children's pastor. I use puppets to teach
children. I am interested in building some remote control puppets for a
puppet band. I would like to control them possibly with a basic
subroutine. I have 20 years of electronics experience but I am just
starting to learning about ANIMATRONICS.

Has any one used Muscle wire for ANIMATRONICS?
I have seen it in a catalog somewhere.
How slow is it?
How strong is it?
How much electrical current dose it take to operate it?
What are the pros and cons?

Lyndell Taylor
King's Kids Puppets - Leading children to the Kingdom of God
Fax 1-540-223-4227 email lyndellt@juno.com
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acers/9268

=============================================================================

From: LaughingEgg@webtv.net (Steve Weber)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:41:57 -0800
Subject: Introduction

Hi to all,

I guess this would be as good a time as any to introduce
myself.......my name is Steve Weber and I've been in the puppet business
in one capacity or another for over 25 years.

My interest and involvment in puppetry is a theatrical one...meaning,
the shows that I create and the puppets in them are intended to be seen
on a stage in front of an audience.
Practically all my work is 'movement' oriented..
I don't rely on dialogue to make a statement.

I'm constantly searching for new ways of
achieving greater control over my puppets..( i.e.
a broader range of movement.)......without
increasing the need for extra hands....

This is primarlly an economic consideration..
( Highly skilled theatrical puppeteers are also EXTREMELY hard to come
by in the United States)

I want to join forces with some talented engineers in California who
would be interested in working with me in developing some practicle
devices for live puppet manipulation.
I'm not advocating the use of animatronics or
mechanics as a method of replacing human control...but rather a way to
augment it to increase the dramatic impact.......

After all, as soon as a puppet is taken out of the hands of the
puppeteer, it ceases to be a puppet and becomes a machine.

I look forward to hear from any of you who would be interested in
helping to carry the art
of puppetry a little further along..and have some
fun in the process!

Peace,
Steve Weber
The Laughing Egg Studio

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:30:17 EST
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

Hello Lyndell!
I've looked at muscle wire a couple of times. I don't remember the exact
specifics of it, but I think it was not neccesarily the speed it contracts at,
but the recycling time. (how long it takes to cool down so it can be
contracted again) that turned me off the idea. I guess the other drawback is
that this field uses alot of servo equipment with animatronics (not that I'm
against ANYTHING new!!) I have been wanting to experiment with it for eye
movement for some time...I might just pick some up and play with it a bit,
maybe it can even be made to react to servo signals! I've heard that the
current draw is not bad. I really need to go look at the specs again. I'm
curious to see what other people's reactions to this idea are. Anyone more
experienced with muscle wire listening?
Scott

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:38:42 EST
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hiya Steve!
Have you ever thought of a marionette controlled with an electronic
manipulator ( the t bar that puppeteers use) I'm embarrassed that I can't
think of what they are called. I've thought about that idea more than a few
times. Or like the supermarionations that had electrical wire used for the
strings...to operate the mouth. I've also got a side project going using a
hand puppet. I want to leave it as a hand puppet, but augment movements using
animatronics controlled by the hand inside the puppet.
I also tried my hand at creating a miniature automata band that used rod
puppet methods but with cams and rings driving the rods. I never finished
that, WAY too many mechanisms involved. At that time, my skill was minimal. I
may pick it up again one day. Good thing I always keep all my notes and
drawings. I think this would be a great topic to explore since there are so
many puppeteers among this list. Whaddaya say guys!?
-Scott
Little Golem Design Studios

=============================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee jdunfee@shadow.net
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 00:53:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

>My name is Lyndell. I am a children's pastor. I use puppets to teach
>children. I am interested in building some remote control puppets for a
>puppet band.

I think I may write some more about when to choose animatronics and what
motions to use, but I thought I would go ahead and pop in with these comments.
I have done puppetry at my church for many years, although this is
definitely a field where there is little need for automation because of the
presence of so many volunteers longing to be part of something worthwile.
You might consider simply recruting a group of kids (perhaps a grade or two
older than the ones you are teaching at the time) and they can operate the
band. Of course, the fact that this might be easier, or cheaper than
automation is only one benefit. The kids performing will gain from the
experience as well. It is hard for kids to find things where they can
contribute in a truely valuable way with their own abilies.
But all the above aside, I think there are other valid reasons to automate
a puppet. One might simply be, that you want to, and would enjoy doing it.
And that is definitely a valid reason! And once working, it certainly will
take less "practice" to have them ready to perform than a group of kids.
Well... then again maybe not, if you count the construction,programming and
repair time, I wouldn't be supprised if training a group of 1 graders might
be easier and less time consuming. But sill, the automatronics also have
"gee whiz" appeal to the audience.

>Has any one used Muscle wire for ANIMATRONICS?
>I have seen it in a catalog somewhere.
>How slow is it?
>How strong is it?
>How much electrical current dose it take to operate it?
>What are the pros and cons?
>
>Lyndell Taylor

It is my understanding that it is fairly slow to respond, and has a finite
life in terms of number of repetitions. I never bothered to try it as soon
as I realized all the problems. It is very clearly not a good choice for
animatronics.
But on the plus side, there is already a large viriety of commonly
available devices to use instead. Standard R/C style Servos are the
mainstay of the animatronics industry.

(p.s. if you aren't aware of the Christian Puppetry Maillist and the
Fellowship of Christian Puppeteers, E-mail me for more info)
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

=============================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee jdunfee@shadow.net
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 00:53:47 -0500
Subject: Intro of Joe Dunfee

In reguards to this list, my main skill is as a puppet Builder. I have
built puppets for a few local low-budget videos intended for the Children's
market. The puppets have been both muppet type, and other more unusual
configurations (virities of rod puppets). I think the puppetry and
characterization is the main skill I have to bring to this forum. I think it
is too often that people take on an animatronic project and do a great deal
of work that actually falls flat. When they could have greatly simplified
the mechanical aspects of their designs and concentrated more on the
character and what motions it needed to portray itself properly. I guess I
am now also seeing that there may be two diffent branches to animatronics.
One being an extension of puppetry, where the character is a stylization or
boiled down characterization of things in real-life (or fantasy). The other
being an attempt to mimic nature (or an imagined nature) in a very realistic
way. I plan on writing a bit more on this when I have time.
I also have some electronics and drafting training, so perhaps I can
contribute in this area as well, although some others seem much more able in
this area. I have acted semi-professionally and also work
semi-professionally in theater technical support (mostly lights).
I think my biggest weakness for this field is the actual mechanical
fabrication. I have reciently moved to a new house, with the idea that I can
start to construct a shop and work to develop these skills. You can only do
so much on the kitchen table.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 006
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*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Thu, 08 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 7

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:05:29 EST
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

Jooe is right, Lyndell, there are several reasons not to use muscle wire for
animatronics. The life cycle was another I forgot. Something I neglected to
menton (since yesterday was a tiring day for me) was that you can use cable
control in liue of muscle wire. There are many cables out there with sheaths,
like bicycle brake cable, throttle cables, flexible push/pull rods for radio
control. My current favorite is lawnmower throttle cable. There is also a nice
website with many prefabricated cables at http://www.cmacable.com/ To hook up
these cables to servos, I go to my local hardware or electronic stores and by
the crimp eye connectors. The ones without the insulation. You can rimp these
onto your cables, then solder in place. I then just screw them onto the servo
horn. If someone has a better way, I would love to hear! Hope this helps you
out, Lyndell! Scott

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:15:28 EST
Subject: Re: Intro of Joe Dunfee

LOL Tell my parents that! I still live with my parents, and my bedroom is my
workshop...drives my parents nuts! Your skills are exactly what I need to
learn from. I can build the mechanics, and animate them very well when I have
the character right, but my character development skills need some improving.
I don't think I am currently interested in mimicking nature. I want to be able
to create autonomous children's displays for malls, stores, and musuems.
Where, obviously you could not use puppeteers. (I'm sure even the best would
get tired after many hours.) I would never say to get rid of puppetry either,
Joe, I'm sure you've seen me in the puptcrit mailing list as well. That is
another of my interests. I am simply fascinated with the fact that I can "let
it go" and watch my creatures come to life. You know what I mean? I love it.
Talk to you all later. Dayjob is calling! : ) Scott

=============================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:30:35 +0000
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

Hello All,

Muscle wire uses a *lot* of current at a low voltage. Like several amps at 1.5
volts. It looks like nifty stuff, but I haven't seen much in the way of
applications for it. Mondotronics ( http://www.RobotStore.com ) has kits,
wire, books etc on it.

BTW, I have designed and programmed a sophisticated servo controller board
that I would like to make available to this group AT MY COST, which is about
$18 per controller. You will have to assemble it yourself, but the circuit
board, programmed microcontroller and all parts are included. It uses a
Motorola chip having over 300 bytes of ram and 8k rom. Servo speed,
intermediate positions, upper and lower limits, direction and other
parameters are all controllable. It uses the serial PC port, has a built in
language, and can control up to eight servos. Additionally, a compiled basic
(dos based) program is available (free from me) that allows you to store
movement programs and do many other things not possible with simple
controllers like the mini ssc.

If anyone is interested in this controller please contact me. If there is
enough interest I will put the full specs on a web site (I'll steal space on
my wife's).

Mark Lerman

At 09:37 PM 1/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello Lyndell!
>I've looked at muscle wire a couple of times. I don't remember the exact
>specifics of it, but I think it was not neccesarily the speed it contracts at,
>but the recycling time. (how long it takes to cool down so it can be
>contracted again) that turned me off the idea. I guess the other drawback is
>that this field uses alot of servo equipment with animatronics (not that I'm
>against ANYTHING new!!) I have been wanting to experiment with it for eye
>movement for some time...I might just pick some up and play with it a bit,
>maybe it can even be made to react to servo signals! I've heard that the
>current draw is not bad. I really need to go look at the specs again. I'm
>curious to see what other people's reactions to this idea are. Anyone more
>experienced with muscle wire listening?
> Scott
>--
>Author: Devilin GR
> INET: DevilinGR@aol.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5030 FAX: (619) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet Access

=============================================================================

From: Herb Montes herbmont@tgn.net
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:49:25 -0600
Subject: Introduction and Shape Memory Alloys

My experiences are in multi-media, filmmaking and cartooning. I have also
worked with puppetry, robotics and computers. Though most of my work has
been in the industrial educational/training fields rather than the
entertainment industry. Currently I'm working on applying robotics and
animatronics to a personal project.

As to Lyndell Taylor's question about "muscle wire". The material is called
nitinol wire or shape memory alloy. The best source of material and
information would be from Mondotronics and their Robot Store. Their website
is at:

http://robotstore.com

They have something called an electric piston which is a nitinol spring in a
telescoping tube. It is small and with a few volts of power it can produce a
stroke of 19mm with a 450 gram load. It can contract in 2 seconds and
return to its original length in 12 seconds. It can withstand a duty cycle
of 4 strokes per minute. It is best suited for very tight places with small
loads. Mondotronics also sells wire and ribbon in long lengths so you can a
make your own actuators. And they have literature on the stuff. Their
catalog is chock full of motors, servos, microcontrollers and items which
can make animatronic figures easier to bring to life. Ask for a catalog.

-Herb (jack of all media trades, master of none)

=============================================================================

From: Deron Sedy deron@computercamp.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:00:17 -0500
Subject: Intro of Deron Sedy

Hi all!

My name is Deron, and I'm a work-at-home educational video guy.
Just graduated from college where I did a self-designed major called
animation technology, which basically means I took classes in video,
robotics, electronics, and computer graphics and art design, and hoped
that they would give me enough background so I could teach myself the
real stuff later.

I'm one of those guys who has a little talent with everything, but not
a lot with anything. So I know some electronics, some programming, some
puppet construction, some puppeteering, etc. But I'm not the best at
any of those things. Right now I'm pursuing my master's degree in film and
video. My master's project is going to be a children's television show
pilot starring puppets. I have done a few projects with puppets for the
screen, but nothing really with animatronics. I'm looking to start.

So I ordered the catalog from the cables company that Scott recommended.
And I get all the electronics catalogs. Any other good mail-orders out
there that people use?

-Deron

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 007
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*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Fri, 09 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 8

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:59:28 EST
Subject: Re: Intro of Deron Sedy

Well, make sure you check out my best animatronics buddy's web page for links
to all the good stuff at http://www.ChristopherHillman.com/links.html

I just recieved a catlog from a German glass eye company...oh wow!!! They are
some of the most beautiful eyes I have ever seen. I also order taxidermy
supply catalogs, craft catalogs, hobby catalogs, like towerhobbies. at
http://www.towerhobbies.com/
I think I mentioned it in an earlier post, I am a packrat. ANYTHING, and I
mean anything I see that I think I could end up using in anyway, I grab. When
electronic or mechanical things breakaround the house, I break them down into
the smallest of components and try to file them in the junkbox. So, I've got
tidbits of just about everything you can imagine here. The hardware store is
like a gift from heaven, I find some of the coolest things shaped exactly like
a custom piece I thought I would have to assemble. I usually visit it once a
week. Let me make this one short, my dayjob bit me for a 14hr shift today so I
need to get some rest. I've been promising a really long and extremely helpful
post so, I will be doing that in the next few days. (I'm on vacation now!!!! :
) )
Let me just leave you guys with that german eye website since it simply cannot
be missed. It's at http://www.kl-glasaugen.com
Have fun everyone and I'll be typing at you tommorrow!

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 008
=============================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Sat, 10 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 9

From: Mascot Matt <mascot@phillynet.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:30:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

Sorry I'm so late jumping in on this subject (just returned from balmy
Dallas :-/ )...

Lyndell had asked about muscle wire & Joe brought up good points about some
obvious problems. If the lifecycle issue wasnt too critical, one could use
2 pieces of wire for each body part that needs to bend, one wire situated
opposite the other in terms of curl direction, so that a current into the
2nd would bend opposite the 1st. So long as you had the wire in a housing
with stops, the 1st wire would create the bend, & the 2nd wire could be used
to return the form to the stoppered straight position.

Just my 2 cents...
(into to follow)

* Mascot Matt / Animals to Go!
* Strolling Entertainment for Special Events ( ). .( )
* PO Box 813, Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 =V=
* (v) 215/ 721-2310 (f) 215/ 721-3228 (p) 215/ 207-0701
* Email: mascot@phillynet.com Web: www.mascot.org

=============================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:51:49 +0000
Subject: Servo Controller

If you are interested, take a look at my servo controller information at

http://www.bookrescue.com/servo/controller.html

Ignore the listed price. If you are interested in obtaining one (for about
$18), email me.

Mark Lerman
mlerman@ix.netcom.com

=============================================================================

From: LaughingEgg@webtv.net (Steve Weber)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:13:02 -0800
Subject: Questions about Muscle wire

Hi all,

I'm intrigued with muscle wire, but
but my knowledge of electronics is limited. Could someone describe it's
pros and cons?

Can it be activated using small nickle-cadmium
or lithium cells as opposed to AA batteries?.... The application being
the basic facial animation of classical hand puppets and rod puppets.

Peace,
Steve Weber

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:24:13 EST
Subject: Information on muscle wire

I found this at:
http://arti.vub.ac.be/~cyrano/FAQ/muscle_wire.faq
(partial copy of the page posted below)

Here are a couple of text files I received via email.Ron
-----------------From: mondo@mondo.com (Roger G. Gilbertson)
Subject: Muscle Wires(R) FAQ
Mondo-tronics, Inc. Phone: 415-455-9330
524 San Anselmo Ave. #107-69 Fax: 415-455-9333
San Anselmo, CA 94960 Toll Free Orders: 800-374-5764
USA Email: info@mondo.com

MUSCLE WIRES - FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
email V10Q: What are Muscle Wires?
A: Muscle Wires are thin, highly processed strands of a nickel-titanium
alloy called nitinol - a type of Shape Memory Alloy that can assume
radically different forms or "phases" at distinct temperatures.
Q: How do Muscle Wires work?
A: At room temperature Muscle Wires are easily stretched by a small force.
However, when conducting an electric current, the wire heats and changes to
a much harder form that returns to the "unstretched" shape - the wire
shortens in length with a usable amount of force.
Q: How much do Muscle Wires shorten?
A: Muscle Wires can be stretched by up to eight percent of their length and
will recover fully, but only for a few cycles. However when used in the
three to five percent range, Muscle Wires can run for millions of cycles
with very consistent and reliable performance.Q: How strong are Muscle Wires?
A: Large wires are stronger than small ones, and strength varies with
diameter. The strength to expect from a wire when heated is shown by the
Recovery Weight in the table below.
The Deformation Weight indicates the amount needed to stretch a wire when
cool - about one sixth the force exerted when the wire is heated. Our
largest wire has over 45 times the strength of the smallest size, so you
can easily match wire strength to your needs.Q: What if I need more strength?
A: For more strength, use two or more wires in parallel. This gives you as
much strength as needed, and still keeps the fast cycle times of smallerwires.
Q: How fast can Muscle Wires activate?
A: Muscle Wires contract as fast as they are heated - in one thousandth of
a second or less. To relax, the wire must be cooled, which depends on the
conditions surrounding the wire, and its size. Our new Flexinol HT series
of wires has a higher transition temperature and cools up to 50% faster
than the LT wires. The table below gives typical cycle rates for both LT
and HT wires in still air. Moving air or immersing the wires in a fluid
like a water/glycerine mixture can increase these by ten times or more.
Q: How much power do Muscle Wires use?
A: The power needed to activate a wire depends on its diameter, length, and
the surrounding conditions. The table below gives typical current levels
for "room temperature" conditions. Power can be increased, but once the
wire has fully shortened, power should be reduced to prevent overheating.
-----------------------------------==================================================================================
Table 1. Flexinol Muscle Wire Properties
-----------------------------------==================================================================================
Wire Linear Typical Deform. Recovery Typical
Wire Diameter Resist. Current Weight* Weight* Rate**
Name (microns) (ohm/m) (mA) (grams) (grams) (LT/HT)
-----------------------------------==================================================================================
Flexinol 037 37 860 30 4 20 52/68
Flexinol 050 50 510 50 8 35 46/67
Flexinol 100 100 150 180 28 150 33/50
Flexinol 150 150 50 400 62 330 20/30
Flexinol 250 250 20 1,000 172 930 9/13
-----------------------------------==================================================================================
Transition Temperature: 70 Centigrade
* Multiply by 0.0098 to get force in Newtons
** Cycles per minute, in still air, at 20 Centigrade
LT = low temp 70 degrees C, HT high temp 90 degrees C
-----------------------------------==================================================================================
Q: How long do Muscle Wires last?
A: When used in the three to five percent range under proper conditions
Muscle Wires can run for millions of cycles. Often, other parts of a device
will fail or need adjusting long before the Muscle Wire does.
Q: What are the advantages of Muscle Wires?
A: Compared to motors or solenoids, Muscle Wires have many advantages:
small size, light weight, low power, a very high strength-to-weight ratio,
precise control, AC or DC activation, low magnetism, long life, and direct
linear action.
These features let you create whole categories of amazing new devices that
would be difficult or impossible with anything other than Muscle Wires.
Q: What are the keys to using Muscle Wires?
A: For longest lifetimes and best performance from your Muscle Wire
devices, follow these key points:
* Have good electrical & mechanical connections.
* Protect the wire from overheating. * Protect the wire from
overstraining.
Each of these can be accomplished in many different ways. These topics and
more are covered in detail our new 128 page "Muscle Wires Project Book".
For more on this book and all our other products, see our Muscle Wires
Products flyer. Please request it if you have not received it already, and
contact us with any further questions you may have. Thanks again!
Mondo-tronics, Inc. Phone: 415-455-9330
524 San Anselmo Ave. #107-69 Fax: 415-455-9333
San Anselmo, CA 94960 Toll Free Orders: 800-374-5764
USA Email: mondo@holonet.net

Legal. (C)1994 Mondo-tronics, Inc. Muscle Wires is a registered
trademark of Mondo-tronics, Inc. so please use it with the
M and the W capitalized. Eat your vegetables. :(*)

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:33:24 EST
Subject: Well, here's my thoughts.

Muscle wire is something to consider..but the fact that it may need an
entirely seperate controller, lends itself to difficulty in animatronics,
where you are trying to standardize as much as possible and focus on
animation. However, I am deeply curious about it for a few simple operations.
The eyes; a muscle wire mechanism would reduce the space needed for the eyes
tremendously and probably provide for a much more realistic animation. My
concerns are: The heat required to contract the wire, since only a small piece
of the wire is required, that may be minimal. But most eyes are plastic,
although I am looking into glass eyes...I wonder if the heat would damage the
plastic. The fact that they sound so slow, really limits their usefulness in
animatronics where you want natural speed. I'm sure I'll be experimetning it
in my spare time soon. The second area I would be interested in using it is in
the lips. This would be a great deformation agent for the many shapes that the
lips take. Currently the best lip designs I've seen use four actuators, not
including the three degrees of jaw movement.
Well, I have quite a bit more on my priorities list right now, so it will be
more than just a short time before I get around to playing with these ideas.
I'll be sure to let everyone know when I do. Scott McDonnell

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:48:16 EST
Subject: A new conversation topic!

I am currently working on a shoulder mechanism to use in a humanoid
animatronic. This golem will only be about 18" tall, however. And his arms are
very thin. He's a very lively little critter, so I need alot of animation in
the arms. I keep getting stumped on combining the rotational movements with
the cable controlled movements. I am now researching some mechanical
assemblies I have never messed with before: calipers, and oh what's the
name...bindel pulleys (?) the latter is a half circle type pulley in which a
cable goes completely around, but is mounted in the center. Basically this
transfers linear movement into rotational movement. I will also be
experimenting with simply removing the servo from it's housing and mouting it
anew into the arm to get rotational movement in a smaller size. (this
rotational movement is neccessary to move the elbow left/right, and the
wrists' rotation. I have a diagram I can attach, if anyone is interested in
helping me out, but attachments cannot go through the mailing list, so ask me
in a personal email. Well, this is the beginning of the mechanical stuff for
me...anyone want to see some construction articles of simple animatronic
mechanisms? Be warned, they are nothing spectacular and new, but great
projects for people just getting started.
Personaly, I am curious as to what others have been doing for eye mechanisms,
the best I have found are gimball or gimball-like mechanisms. But, after
building several variations of this, I have been dissuaded into looking for
something better. I would like to see others' designs..compact designs.
Thanks for reading this horribly long email... Scott McDonnell

=============================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:43:53 EST
Subject: Some resources to help out

Motion controllers
http://www.mediamat.com/
http://www.gilderfluke.com/
http://www.kupercontrols.com/#PRODUCTS

A couple of important sources:
http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html
http://hudson.idt.net/~alexbel/skeleton.htm
http://www.ee.ualberta.ca/~charro/cookbook
http://www.ee.washington.edu/eeca/circuits
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/amateur/elehob.html

BUT THE ALL-IN-ONE website to go to IS!!!!!!:
My friends page at:
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com/links.html
There he has a links page with over 800 links to this stuff. Stuff that
me and him have compiled over the years realting to animatronics, including
robotics, engineering, sfx, dolls, mannequins, taxidermy, electronics, surplus
companies, and even a ton of Sci-Fi sites (which I rib him about frequently,
but he won't get rid of 'em : ( )
Enjoy

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 009
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Sun, 11 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 10

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:19:44 +0000
Subject: Re: A new conversation topic!

Scott, I'd love to see some of these mechanisms. Especially ones that don't
require a full machine shop and machinist to produce :-).

mark

At 08:04 PM 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I am currently working on a shoulder mechanism to use in a humanoid
>animatronic. This golem will only be about 18" tall, however. And his arms are
>very thin. He's a very lively little critter, so I need alot of animation in
>the arms. I keep getting stumped on combining the rotational movements with
>the cable controlled movements. I am now researching some mechanical
>assemblies I have never messed with before: calipers, and oh what's the
>name...bindel pulleys (?) the latter is a half circle type pulley in which a
>cable goes completely around, but is mounted in the center. Basically this
>transfers linear movement into rotational movement. I will also be
>experimenting with simply removing the servo from it's housing and mouting it
>anew into the arm to get rotational movement in a smaller size. (this
>rotational movement is neccessary to move the elbow left/right, and the
>wrists' rotation. I have a diagram I can attach, if anyone is interested in
>helping me out, but attachments cannot go through the mailing list, so ask me
>in a personal email. Well, this is the beginning of the mechanical stuff for
>me...anyone want to see some construction articles of simple animatronic
>mechanisms? Be warned, they are nothing spectacular and new, but great
>projects for people just getting started.
>Personaly, I am curious as to what others have been doing for eye mechanisms,
>the best I have found are gimball or gimball-like mechanisms. But, after
>building several variations of this, I have been dissuaded into looking for
>something better. I would like to see others' designs..compact designs.
>Thanks for reading this horribly long email... Scott McDonnell
>--
>Author: Devilin GR
> INET: DevilinGR@aol.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5030 FAX: (619) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet Access

==================================================================================

From: quartz@argonet.co.uk ( Adrian Himpson)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 19:18:49
Subject: Introduction / Removing servos from housings

Hi! My name's Adrian Himpson and I'm based in Oxford, England. My main area of
expertise is as a puppeteer (with some TV, and plenty of live experience),
meaning that my main contact with animatronics in the past has been as an end
user rather than as someone building complex animatronic devices. However, like
most puppeteers I have also needed to dabble in most areas of puppet
construction, and have often used very simple mechanism's to enhance my
creation's abilities.

Like Mark, I would be very interested in seeing some of your mechanisms, Scott,
particularly nice simple eye mechanisms, as I'm currently upgrading my main
character's head, and am keen to be able to include a better eye mechanism than
the single-servo single-sweep mechanism I have been using up to now, with both
eyelids mounted directly onto a single arm mounted between they eyes.
Originally this worked fine, but as I have improved the face it would be nice
if I could upgrade the blink to a similar standard.

Scott mentioned removing servos from their casings to save space. I too tried
this once where I needed a lot of movement in a face and wanted to take direct
feeds from the servos rather than using cable attatchments, and found that it
caused more problems than it saved in my case, due to stray dust and fluff from
the fur fabric skin getting into the servos and gumming them up, making them
very noisy, and causing them to strain badly. In future I'd only bother
de-casing the servos if I knew they would be in an area less fluff-prone!

Adrian ;o)

--
'''
(O O)
+-----oOO----(_)-----------+
| Adrian Himpson |
| Nine Lives Productions |
| quartz@argonet.co.uk |
+-----------------oOO------+
|__|__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:32:16 EST
Subject: Re: Introduction / Removing servos from housings

That's a good point about the removing servos thing. I need to do this since I
can't afford the space for the full servo's housing in the arms. I am going to
put the motor directly in line with the upper arm "bone" so that when it
roates, it rotates the elbow. I will pay particular attention to the sealing
of it now that you mentioned that...I am putting together some diagrams of
what I am doing..they are in the rough design phases right now, but would
definitely welcome comments. I hope to start building some pieces this
week...my day-job has kept me from havnig time do any of this and I've got one
week's worth of vacation to make up for it...
I'll post the URL tommorrow, my friend is donating a page on his site for the
images...BRUCE, let me know if you want the files HERE somehow...OK, toodles
untill tommorrow....

happy animating!!
Scott McDonnell

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 010
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Mon, 12 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 11

From: lyndellt@juno.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:06:52 EST
Subject: servo controller board

Mark Lerman,
I am interested in this servo controller board. can you tell me more and how to get it.

Lyndell Taylor
King's Kids - Leading children to the Kingdom of God
Fax 1-540-223-4227 email lyndellt@juno.com

==================================================================================

From: lyndellt@juno.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:06:51 EST
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

Scott,
Joe,
I agree that there is no reason to replace the human involvement in
puppet manipulations. You are exactly right about the good it does for
the children involved. The puppet team gets them started in the work of
the Lord. Electronics can't replace the individualities and character
of the puppeteer.

I was thinking of using this idea of a animated band for an unattended
display or for using while children come into the sanctuary or to place
out in the entry while setting up. Or in a background situation

Thanks for the good advise on the mussle wire. I thought it may be
better to ask some one who knows before I invest what little money I
have. Do you have any suggestions for servos? Type, company, outlet,
etc....

Lyndell Taylor
King's Kids - Leading children to the Kingdom of God
Fax 1-540-223-4227 email lyndellt@juno.com
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acers/9268

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:42:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

Dear List,

The point isn't to replace people, but to make puppet performances more
accessible to people, like records make musical performances generally
available.

Probably the best example is the animatronics shows in the casinos...
the casinos are 24 a hour a day operations. The 10 minute animatronic
shows are repeated every 15 minutes around the clock. These are working
conditions that a puppetteers would not want to work under, but might be
willing to record for electronic playback. Attention puppeteers : Think
royalty.

Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 011
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Tue, 13 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 12

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:36:21 +0000
Subject: Re: servo controller board

Lyndell,

See this web page for further info on the controller. Ignore the listed
price - it will be about $18 to members of this list.

http://www.bookrescue.com/servo/controller.html

The commands listed on the page are native to the controller itself. In
addition, I have a compiled basic program that lets you create and save
movement 'programs' and do many other things that other controllers won't
do. The controller also has 8 digital input lines and 8 digital output lines
that the program can utilize in such commands as 'wait til input 1 goes low
then pause 2 seconds and make output hi for 3 seconds before continuing the
program'.

If you want one, let me know. When everone that wants one has emailed me,
I'll send them out with thew program and other data on disk. If there are
only a few of you, I will build them myself, else I will send you the parts
and board as a 'kit'. Please let me know if you are electronicaly
challenged, and I will be sure to build one for you.

Mark

==================================================================================

From: "Bruce A. Bergman" bbergman@doctord.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:25:29 -0800
Subject: Re: servo controller board

Mark --

(I copied this to the list in case others had the same questions...)

I took a look at the servo controller you've got, but before the "price
drop", I only took a cursory glance. Now that it's down to about $18, I
took a second glance... ;-)

A couple questions:

1) Can you put up a picture of this beast? I'd love to see what it looks
like -- that will help me figure out if I can use it for my purposes.

2) What, specifically, would I need to actuate some movement? I.e., does
your servo controller work with any standard R/C servo? Or do I need
something else? I guess what I'm ultimately looking for is an idea of what
I need to hook up to its output in order to make something move.

3) Are all commands synchronous? I.e., if I did this:

> [...] such commands as 'wait til input 1 goes low then pause
>2 seconds and make output hi for 3 seconds before continuing the program'.

Would this mean that the command to make output hi would block until the 2
second timer expired?

4) Where does this thing get it's power from? Battery? RS-242 voltages?

>If you want one, let me know. When everone that wants one has emailed me,
>I'll send them out with thew program and other data on disk. If there are
>only a few of you, I will build them myself, else I will send you the parts
>and board as a 'kit'. Please let me know if you are electronicaly
>challenged, and I will be sure to build one for you.

At this point, I'm ready to say "include me", but I'd like to see a shot of
the unit first... It SOUNDS wonderful for what I'm looking to do, though.

thanks!

bruce

==================================================================================

From: rsheridan@CGSD.COM (Robert Sheridan)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:48:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: servo controller board

Sorry for my inattentiveness - I missed the first part of this thread...
I'd also like to see a picture, and if it drives one or more standard RC
servos with only a few external components (say, an output stage or
something), I'm very interested.

If you wouldn't mind reposting the original (or just mailing it specifically
to me so as not to waste everyone else's time) I'd appreciate that.

Thanks,

Robbie
------------------------------==================================================================================
Robert Sheridan Office: 650.903.4928
Electromechanical Engineer Lab: 650.903.4930
CGSD Corp. http://www.cgsd.com e-mail: rsheridan@cgsd.com
------------------------------------------------------------

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:12:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Introduction / Removing servos from housings

>Scott mentioned removing servos from their casings to save space. I too tried
>this once where I needed a lot of movement in a face and wanted to take direct
>feeds from the servos rather than using cable attatchments, and found that it
>caused more problems than it saved in my case, due to stray dust and fluff from
>the fur fabric skin getting into the servos and gumming them up

>Adrian ;o)

How about plastic wrap? (Seran Rap?)
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:12:34 -0500
Subject: Attachments

Reciently Scott brought up the issue of attachments. (well... not that
reciently... I am behind a few days on my E-mail)
I have been playing with a scanner for a few days, and also drawings
created from scratch with Window's Paint. I was corresponding with a fellow
puppeteer, and we were discussing construction techniques. It would have
been nearly impossible for me to communicate with words only.
I found that I could create some really useful drawings that were under
10k. With JPEG compression, they were under 7k. I did things like reduce the
number of pixel's and only used color when necessary, and reduced the number
of colors to only the quantity necessary.
Perhaps we could adopt a rule that allowed attachments, but only if they
were under a certain size - like 10k.

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:55:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

>Thanks for the good advise on the mussle wire. I thought it may be
>better to ask some one who knows before I invest what little money I
>have. Do you have any suggestions for servos? Type, company, outlet,

>Lyndell Taylor
>King's Kids - Leading children to the Kingdom of God

Servos are pretty widely available and the R/C Control hobby stores have
reasonable prices. Perhaps someone can pipe in with some of the names of the
major ones that have web pages (I thin Tower Hobbies is one), so you can see
them for yourself and the specs for the various kinds. You can get the
average ones for $13 each.
I purchased some cheap ones used from Alltronics ($10 for 4), a surplus
store. Actually they gave me 6 with that order, but only 4 worked reasonably
well.
For a band, you might be able to get by with simply using simple motors,
rather than servos. If you use servos, you must devise a control system and
a playback system. Since playing an instrument involves frequently repeating
patterns of motion, you might just have a motor turning a crank that moves
the desired arm of the charactes. Definietly not as much "finesse" as
possible with servos, but simpler and cheaper.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 012

ANIMATRONICS-L at FatCity.com
Archives - ( page 2 )

ANIMATRONICS-L Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:55:01 local from fatcity
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 013

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:49:21 +0000
Subject: Re: servo controller board

At 02:45 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Mark --
>(I copied this to the list in case others had the same questions...)

Bruce,

I've answered your questions briefly below. If anyone wants the full written
instructions for the controller, I would be happy to email them as
attachments in text form. It would obviously be easier for me to send the
attachments to the entire list, but I assume this is not appropriate for
this list.

>I took a look at the servo controller you've got, but before the "price
>drop", I only took a cursory glance. Now that it's down to about $18, I
>took a second glance... ;-)

Not really a price drop - Just giving them to members of this list at cost
because I'm interested in animatronics and want to see what you people can
do with it.

>A couple questions:
>1) Can you put up a picture of this beast? I'd love to see what it looks
>like -- that will help me figure out if I can use it for my purposes.

I'll try to do that in the next day or two.

>2) What, specifically, would I need to actuate some movement? I.e., does
>your servo controller work with any standard R/C servo? Or do I need
>something else? I guess what I'm ultimately looking for is an idea of what
>I need to hook up to its output in order to make something move.
>
Works with any standard rc type servos. If desired, I can modify the board
and firmware to handle up to about 12 (possibly more) servos. There are 8
3-pin headers that are set up for futaba type connectors. Power can be
either from the servo power supply or from a higer voltage (9-35v) supply
via a built in voltage regulator.

>3) Are all commands synchronous? I.e., if I did this:
>
>> [...] such commands as 'wait til input 1 goes low then pause
>>2 seconds and make output hi for 3 seconds before continuing the program'.
>
>Would this mean that the command to make output hi would block until the 2
>second timer expired?
>

There are 2 'sets' of commands. The first set is described on the web page.
These commands are native to the controller itself. These commands give
maximum flexibility.

The second set of commands are in a completely separate dos based program
that I wrote. This program acts as a 'front end' for the servo controller
and includes such features as storing movement programs to disk, playing
programs that have been previously recorded, and many other things.

It also includes features that allow the commands you queried. What would
happen is this: when this portion of the program is reached, the program
would look at input line 1. If it is high, the program would continue to
monitor the line till it dropped. It would then wait 2 seconds. After 2
seconds it would make a selected output line high for 3 seconds, then continue.

>4) Where does this thing get it's power from? Battery? RS-242 voltages?

see above. A 9 volt battery would also suffice.

>>If you want one, let me know. When everone that wants one has emailed me,
>>I'll send them out with thew program and other data on disk. If there are
>>only a few of you, I will build them myself, else I will send you the parts
>>and board as a 'kit'. Please let me know if you are electronicaly
>>challenged, and I will be sure to build one for you.

>At this point, I'm ready to say "include me", but I'd like to see a shot of
>the unit first... It SOUNDS wonderful for what I'm looking to do, though.
>thanks!
>
>bruce
>
>Author:
> INET: bbergman@doctord.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5030 FAX: (619) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet Access

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:39:12 EST
Subject: Re: Introduction / Removing servos from housings

Actually, come to think of it..in R/C's they use balloons to water-proof the
servos, for off road use. I recently had to pull the power locks out of my car
(neat mechanism, BTW, I was just thinking of a similar mechanism THAT day for
animatronics.) Anyway, that had a rubber boot around the motor, with a bearing
around the shaft and the boot just had a wire tie crimping it to the bearring.
This may be sufficient enough to seal the motors.
BTW, I'm back, I had an emergency I've been taking car of the last couple of
days, so I have not finished those drawings. I have had them done for a long
time, but my way of drawing my designs probably wouldn't make much sense to
anyone else. So, I am trying to put them together in a way that other's will
understand. TOUCH TONE!!!! Are you listening? Would you be willing to just put
everyone's drawings on your page? I know you wanted to start a page, What do
you think? Let us all know. I'll get those pictures up soon, I promise...
Thanks everyone, Scott.

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:00:06 EST
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

I agree with Joe, one of the topics I would like to see researched and
discussed here, is using other actuation besides servos, pneumatics and
hydraulics. This would mean muscle wire, air muscles, solenoids, steppers,
regular DC motors... Basically what R/C servos do, is make animatronics more
reachable for the hobbyist. And to provide a simple way for movie effects
masters to control their beasts. These are then disassembled after the movie
and the servos used again. When wanting an in-place semi-permanent display,
there may be better options. I managed to get 31 pnuematic rams from a flea
market here in MI, that are pretty suitable for animatronics. If controlled
slowly enough, you may be able to do some pretty precise motion. My cost: $20.
I haven't begun to use them though, since for most things, the air compressor
would be too loud. (not to mention the valves being pretty expensive)
Also recently, I have been playing with a simple design to turn ordinary DC
motors into R/C servo type devices using 556's The reason for the 556 is that
one side is used for a comparator and one used for an oscillator. I am working
out the details on right now. I know it's a simple circuit, so if anyone has a
link to one that already exists, I'd like to see it, since that is also low on
my priority list right now.
Lyndell, you may be interested to do research into Automata, mechanical
animated figures, these use CAMS to animate a character in a repetitive
motion. Since with the band, you will be able to do alot of repetitive motions
and it would still look believible. (Just look at Chuck E Cheese's!) One place
for books and videos on making automata is Cabaret Mechanical Theatre at:
http://www.cabaret.co.uk

Well, hope this helps everyone untill I get those drawings finished. Going to
go eat breakfast and work on them today.. Good luck! Scott

==================================================================================

From: lyndellt@juno.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:15:48 EST
Subject: servo controller board

Mark Lerman,
I am interested in this servo controller board. can you tell me more
and how to get it.

Lyndell Taylor
King's Kids - Leading children to the Kingdom of God
Fax 1-540-223-4227 email lyndellt@juno.com

==================================================================================

From: lyndellt@juno.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:15:47 EST
Subject: Re: Intro & Muscle wire

Lyndell Taylor
King's Kids - Leading children to the Kingdom of God
Fax 1-540-223-4227 email lyndellt@juno.com
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acers/9268

==================================================================================

From: ILAUGHLAST ILAUGHLAST@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:37:16 EST
Subject: Re: A new conversation topic!

If you haven't explored this area... using a differential type set up(two
opposing gears turning a third) is a great way to achieve rotational motion in
wrists and elbows.

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:35:49 EST
Subject: The first of the diagrams

Well, I talked to Touch Tone (Mike Siedman) and he is going fullforce with the
animatronics page. I sent him a diagram which he has put up already, I still
have to write the article for it including the parts list. I have a few more
eye designs that I want to share, but need to refine, so they are somewhat
decipherable...my (our) intention is to build a faq, as well as many step-by-
step articles to help the beginner's get something built. Everyone in this
list is encouraged to send material to Mike, at animatronics@intertronics.com.
What I would like to see is a cooperation effort from all of us to build a a
very informational resource that we can all be a part of of. I noticed there
are many puppeteers in this list, perhaps we could get some skin/fur creation
articles from you guys! That's where I am lacking. I'd like to hilight the
building of a complete animatronic figure from start to finish. I will be
rebuilding a simple eye mechanism I did a year ago using a salvaged joystick.
This will be posted on the page including pictures on how it was done. I tore
it apart after experimenting with it, why I can't remember. anyway...look for
articles, and please post some articles and diagrams to Mike, I promise he'll
give you proper credit. Let's do something that hasn't been done before, just
like this list...animatronics for everyone.

P.S. The major thing that sparked the creation of this mailing list is
discussions that were taking place in the Barney-Bot mailing list. These were
about motion controllers, particularly using the Actimates Barney interface
for off-the-shelf animatronics. Well, me and Mike have been working on a
motion controller system (me on the hardware, him on the software.) We came to
the conclusion that first we want to build a full-blown testbed to test out
it's capabilities. So, we are in effect building some animatronics hardware
first, then delving into the motion controller. This will all be highlighted
on the page in a big glossy way! So, anyone that wants to help get this going,
review the pages we make, post to us about them with suggestions, etc.. and
we'll get the ball rolling.
The URL for the diagram is at
:http://www.intertronics.com/animatronics/eyedsgn1.gif
there is no text right now to explain the picture, so if you have any
questions, post them here. I'll try to have the text ready by tommorrow...
Have a great night everyone, and Happy Birthday to me!!!! Scott

==================================================================================

From: "Bruce A. Bergman" <bbergman@doctord.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:56:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Attachments

At 04:06 PM 1/14/98 -0800, you wrote:
> What is the "submit" feature? What is it a feature of?

Sorry, I keep forgetting this is a new list... ;-)

It's a feature of ListGuru that allows any subscriber of the list to send
files to ListGuru. ListGuru then adds those files to the list archives,
making it available for all other subscribers to get at their convenience
and/or whim. Simply put, it's a really easy method of sticking things into
the archive. That way the whole list isn't bothered with additional
traffic, it's there for as long as needed, and people can refer NEW members
(who may have missed it) to the archive to get the file, rather than
re-posting it. This feature is used by some of my code-intensive lists to
share code-fragments, examples, patches, etc., amongst programmers, and
it's quite popular.

Send an E-mail message to:

ListGuru@fatcity.com

And in the message body, put:

HELP SUBMIT
HELP GET

The help sections you'll get back will tell you how to put something in the
archive (using the SUBMIT command), and how to get it back out (using the
GET command). If anyone has any problems or questions, just let me know.
thanks,

bruce

==================================================================================

From: LaughingEgg@webtv.net (Steve Weber)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:34:29 -0800
Subject: A Puppet By Any Other Name...

Hi to All,

I'd just to put my two cents in regarding the
human control of 'puppets' / animatronics....

The bottom line is....it makes no difference whether the figure's
movements are controlled
by rods, strings, cables, servos, et al........

As long as those movements are ACTIVATED by DIRECT human control in REAL
TIME...that figure can be called a PUPPET in the truest sense of the
word......
As soon as you take the ACTIVATION of those movements out of human
hands. and place them under the DIRECT control of a mechanical or an
electronic device...that figure ceases to be a puppet and becomes a
machine or automata......

Again, let me clarify..it makes absolutely no
difference whether the animation is activated by
a Waldo, or performance control system....As
long as a puppeteer is in DIRECT and IMMEDIATE control ..that figure can
be called a puppet.

And gentlemen..I completely understand and appreciate how important the
'human' element is..... and the spiritual connection between the
puppeteer, the puppet and the audience.....but I would rather not see
this board evolve into a forum for theological discussion .....with all
due respect.

Peace,
Steve Weber

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 013
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Thu, 15 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 14

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:22:40 EST
Subject: Re: A Puppet By Any Other Name...

I was thinking along the same lines. I didn't want to see a war break out
between puppeteers and automata creators. I completely appreciate that we have
puppeteers in this mailing list, their help will be greatly needed and thier
discussions extremely informative. However, there IS a mailing list for puppet
related discussion, (of which I am a member. More of a lurker than a
contributor, unfortunately) I would love to discuss issues of human interfaces
with animatronics, and methods for adding extra hands to a puppeteer.
I refer to what I do as creating Golems. My art is to be made autonomous, but
at one point programmed in real time. Kind of like a television show or movie,
it was performed once, but then rebroadcast millions of times. Does this make
the actors part less important? My point is that a puppeteer can only work so
many hours, and the purpose for exhibit animatronics is that they can repeat
an performance over and over exhaustively. I think where the line is drawn is
when you involve artificial intelligence into the animatronics to control it's
movements and actions that it becomes just a machine. Thanks, and of course,
peace among us... Scott

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:21:05 +0000
Subject: Overview of Servo Systems

Hello all,

As you may have gathered from my posts, my field of animatronic expertise
lies in control of rc servo motors. The system I have designed was
originally used for robotic arms and small robotic figures constructed from
servos.

As such, the normal procedure is to attach the servos directly to the
controller, and connect the controller to a computer via the serial port.
The robot is then commanded via the computer. Movement 'programs' can be
stored on the computer's hard disk for later replay or editing.

In extending this to amimatronics, things get more complex. The main problem
is that we have to have a computer tied up each time we want to run our
animatronic character. This becomes a serious problem if we want to run
several characters all day at different locations.

I would like to know how this problem is generally addressed in the
animatronics industry. Do you use specialized controllers? Do you use
laptops? Or is there some simple solution that I have overlooked?

The solution I propose is to make a special controller that attaches to the
computer and the character. Once the movement program is composed, it is
downloaded into the controller and stored in non-volatile memory. The
computer can then be detached and the controller will play the program
independently.

Using the controller algorithm I have developed, many thousands of movements
can easily be stored on a small chip, so that the entire controller need not
be larger than the palm of your hand. Additionally, it is possible to send
the servo signals from the controller to the character serially, so that the
hardware in the character would consist of only a tiny inexpensive board
that connects to the controller via a 2 wire cable. This means that each
character does not have to have an expensive servo controller board
installed in it's body.

Do these ideas make any sense to you experts on the List?

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: "Martin Coster" mrc@pacific.net.sg
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:46:43 +0800
Subject: Control systems

Hi All, and especially Mark Lerman!

My first time with the list, and thought I'd throw a bit in about
animatronic control systems (and other things).

I work in the film and theme park industry, and there are a number of
'off-the-shelf' control systems that do the sort of un-attended animation
control Mark was asking about. Some of these cost nothing short of a
fortune, but certainly you get what you pay for - very slick and easy to
use, and highly reliable. Other systems may be of more interest to the
readers of this list. One such system is made by a company called Effective
Engineering Inc (search the web for their homepage) who sell a range of
small RC servo controllers, including random and programmable versions.
They are really compact and can fit in the smallest spaces. It can be
programmed via a RC controller or simple pots.

Many of the professional systems are, however, designed around the use of
pneumatic actuators, as the drive capacity and life is much longer than
with RC servos. Depending on the budget of the job, these usually use a mix
of digital valve (on-off) and analog servo valves. The digital systems use
just simple 24v triggers from the control system, where as the analogs use
0-10v variables. Analog servo valves are a LOT more expensive (like $400+
each), but ohhhh, the control! Typical stand alone controllers for this
sort of system come from people like Triad Controls - the BART (Basic
Animation Real Time controller) - the Gilderfluke range of animation
Bricks, Electrosonic ANCOR, Garner Holts animation systems and several
others.

These units work in a similar way to that which Mark described; a PC is
used to program them, and then the show is downloaded to battery backed RAM
or EPROM so things can run for years to come. Search the web for the names
above and you should learn more about these systems.

As for the issue of puppeteering and computer controlled animation, I'm not
sure how others on this list program animatronics into control systems, but
the systems we work with make recording a 'live' performance the main
objective. To program them you still have to 'act' the part (with waldos,
faders, joysticks, switches etc) and the 'programmer' needs to be a
artistic person. Performances are recorded in real-time, with only very
minor touch-ups as needed. The idea is that the computer simply records the
performers (puppeteers?) actions for future replay.

I fully understand the difference between live puppeteering and
animatronics programming (I've done both) but at the end of the day what
it's all about is creating an enjoyable artistic piece of entertainment.
Too often I see beautifully engineered animatronics that move like yuk!
Remember the technology is simply a means to an end, and not the reason in
itself...

Just my 2 cents worth.

Martin Coster
AFX Singapore

PS: Good list - keep it coming!

==================================================================================

From: Robert rbarch@tristate.pgh.net
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:52:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Control systems

Hello,
This is my first day on the newsletter also. When you want
to record a whole series of movements or a entire show that has been
programmed into a computer then the most inexpensive way would be
by using a taperecorder.
The digital information is first converted to audio sounds and
recorded. Whenever you need it you just press play on the recorder
and the audio signal is passed thru a interface that converts the
sounds into digital information that once again can be used to operate the
servos (or whatever).
This method was used over 30 years ago and is still used today.
Robert

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 MONKEE1291@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:52:08 EST
Subject: Re: Overview of Servo Systems...here's what we did!!!

Hello,I'm new to the animatronics-l list,but I build animations/animatronics
for a living,I don,t know what has been said so forgive me if I'm repeting
what is all ready known.Most of the characters I currently do use
pneumatics/servo pneumatics but about nine years ago developed a system for
controling 48 rc servos off of cassette tape,the system programmed off of a
C-64((that really shows you how dated this was))the data track was then dumped
to the left data track while the voice/music track was on the right side.the
playback system was really simple,just a bunch of shift registers and drivers
the hardest part of these type of systems is the data recovery what we
origionally did was to modify the C-64s tape back-up drive into a new tape
deck((we later came up with a sort of analog/schmidt trigger way of doing
it))I bought a new C-64 at a flea market and sometime I would like it program
some new songs for the bears((our first rc bear show 7 characters 48
functions...It still works!!!!!!)) now that we have dat tape players
regenaration should not be needed,I think even a mini disk would work well.
Most smaller animatronic shows do not use pcs,Pcs are usually only used
for configuring,programming or maintaining the shows,PCs are a Big headache
the more buttons there are left at the installation the more chances someone
is going to start messing around.the systems ether read off of tape or disk or
are recorded on ram,eprom or pcmci cards,the audio is SMPTE locked or recorded
on an additional channel.Hope this helps.
Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
(609)390-1809
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Ramon Rivero sr7@wetafx.co.nz
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:22:30 +1300
Subject: What is a puppet? & Intro

Hiyya all!

My name is Ramon Rivero and I'm working as a 3D Animator/Puppeteer for
Weta Digital in Wellington, New Zealand.

I subscribed to this mailing list in order to exchange some information
about motion controllers and capture methods.

My background as puppeteer includes Theatre, TV and Film, traditional
puppetry, remote & cable control and more recently 3D animation, motion
capture and animatronic motion.

My background is not all technical (except for traditional techniques),
so I don't get to build any of the mechanisms. Mind you as I'm part of
the Motion Research team and I get to recommend the techniques that may
be possible for each character.

My long experience in traditional puppetry has helped me a great deal to
evolve into 'techno-puppetry', and I'm glad that I come from that
background as I believe that PERFORMANCE and REALISM are the key to any
kind of puppetry.

I believe animation, animatronics and motion capture are part of
puppetry (and not separate 'schools') and I can only comment that
doesn't matter which technique, mechanism, program or system do we use
as long as we satisfy or principal objective that is to (re)CREATE LIFE
in a convincing and realistic way.

After all, the principles of animation written by Disney are similar to
the principles of puppetry developed by Genty or Henson. So where is the
difference? (Still and object and WE make it move).

Give it life!

Ramon Rivero <+64 25 482930>

3D Animator - Weta Digital Effects sr7@wetafx.co.nz
Secretary - Puppeteers in New Zealand sr7@pinz.org.nz

PS: Can any one tell me how to subscribe to the puppetry mailing list?

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:21:15 +0000
Subject: Re: Control systems

Thanks everyone for you very informative replies to my query.

It is interesting that these systems call for 'recording' in real time. My
controller system records in 'positions' and movements. You advance the
servo(s) to a desired position by one of several methods, declare a speed to
reach the position, declare the intermediate positions to reach the
position, then press a button to record that data. You then go on to the
next position. Pauses are recorded in a like manner, eg pause for 1 second.

At any time you can play back what you have composed and edit or add or
delete steps as necessary.

My system works this way because it evolved from some work with a robotic
arm that I constructed a number of years ago. I guess that it is better than
recording in real time in some ways and not so good in others. It does give
a non-artist like me a chance to choreograph moves little by little. I can
move an arm up by *very* tiny controlled increments till it is exactly where
I want it, record the position, then tell the controller program what speed
I want it to use when it goes there in real time. I can then go an move say
the other arm in a likewise manner and record that motion as well. If
desired, both arms (and in fact all 8 servos) can move at the same time at
differing rates.

Each of these positions only take a few bytes to define, so I can record a
very large number of movements in a very small chip, making the whole thing
very small and quite inexpensive. Also, I can very easily loop the program
to continuously repeat, something not as easily done with tapes.

One interesting feature of my controller is that the servo can 'report back'
it's actual position via the controller. I could easily use this feature to
record in real time, say in .1 second slices. This data could then be
converted for playback.

Any further thoughts or comments?

BTW, I am slightly ahead of schedule and hope to ship my controllers to
those of you who have asked for them (at $18 per). I only ask that you USE
them and let me know what you think and how I might improve them for use in
animatronics.

Mark

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 MONKEE1291@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:31:25 EST
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

Mark,Your system sounds good ,but how would you get it to work with a audio
track ?It seems like a natural for a go motion kind of use.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: rsheridan@CGSD.COM (Robert Sheridan)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Overview of Servo Systems

>Using the controller algorithm I have developed, many thousands of movements
>can easily be stored on a small chip, so that the entire controller need not
>be larger than the palm of your hand. Additionally, it is possible to send
>the servo signals from the controller to the character serially, so that the
>hardware in the character would consist of only a tiny inexpensive board
>that connects to the controller via a 2 wire cable. This means that each
>character does not have to have an expensive servo controller board
>installed in it's body.
>
>Do these ideas make any sense to you experts on the List?

Mark -

This all sounds pretty cool. We were in the middle of developing something
very similar - a two-joystick black box for driving 4 servos, that could
plug into another module with memory that could record all the signals. The
second module could then play back the signals independently to the
character. We're sort of in the final stages of construction right now.

So far, nothing we do talks to a PC - the 'programmer' box has a couple of
surplus shop joysticks - the kind on commercial RC sets. Its got a couple of
timer circuits in it that do all the pulse outputs, and these can talk
directly to the servos, or to the record/playback module.

Sending the signals serially means you have to have some means of
synchronizing and demuxing the signals, correct? Our approach means you
don't have to have any onboard electronics on the character, but you do need
far more wires, which can get tedious. You could probably make a good
argument either way. I'd be intersted to know what you've got.

For those who haven't met me (I introduced myself on the first list, but I
don't know how many people are here from there) my name's Robert Sheridan
(my friends call me Robbie). I'm working in Mountain View as an engineer for
a virtual reality company http://www.cgsd.com that is delving into robotic
simulator technology, which is where I've picked up most of my own
knowledge. My friend Greg Wong, whom I'm developing the servo control system
with, also works here (you can reach him at gregwong@cgsd.com). Our other
friend Josh, who's specialty is animatronics and modelmaking, just
transferred jobs - I don't know if he's added himself to the list yet, but
I'll remind him as soon as he sends us his new email.

Anyway, as you can probably tell, my specialty and Greg's is electronics and
motion control (we also know a decent amount about bigger servo control -
2-8 hp range). Mobile robotics is sort of a hobby for both of us, so if
y'all have any other controls/robotics types, we'd like to hear from you.

Cheers all,

RS and GW
------------------------------==================================================================================
Robert Sheridan Office: 650.903.4928
Electromechanical Engineer Lab: 650.903.4930
CGSD Corp. http://www.cgsd.com e-mail: rsheridan@cgsd.com
------------------------------------------------------------

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:56:15 -0500
Subject: Ideas for scripting software

I guess we are going to have a rush of new topics being thrust out as we
all probably have a pent-up stock of ideas to get out. So, her is the start
of mine...

While I have had no problem finding many reasonably priced products that
will accept a signal or control code from a computer and then control the
servo motors, the main problem has been software. I was also concerned that
I get into using a particular hardware and software, but then the product
gets discontinued (or rather, the person doing this in his garage moves on
to other projects) and I can no longer get the stuff.
I was hoping that there might be some sort of standard I could use that
would both allow me to script the movements of the puppet and also do
synchronized sound. I realized that there is an existing market for a
similar product - MIDI, only it is designed to control an electronic synth
rather than a puppet. But why couldn't the MIDI interface be adapted for
anamatronics?
At first I though that I might try to write a program that would intercept
a MIDI sequencer's calls to the MIDI interface and then re-direct them to
the RS-232 interface that most of the hardware animatronic devices seem to
prefer. (after some re-formating of the information) But I quickly realized
that I was way over my head in programming and the internal operations of
the computer.
Eventually I found the device from MediaMation that is a MIDI-to-Servo
adapter, which was ideal. But still, you other guys that are writing code to
control your own servo controler board... why don't you also plan on using
MIDI based sequencers and then the only code you need to control is what is
necessary to intercept the MIDI data (perhaps within the computer itself)
and then re-direct the information to the RS-232 port if that is what you
prefer. Well, actually since virtually all modern computers have the MIDI
port anyway, you could just go with the MIDI interface anyway. Although,
there may be bandwidth problems sticking to the actual MIDI interface, but I
haven't actually worked with it to know what the limiations are.
The advantages of this approach is that you have an existing line of
software that will record MIDI data and also audio data. There are even
stand alone hardware MIDI sequencers that can play back your animations
without the computer.
For Data input, all keyboards have a pitch bend wheel that could be used
and there are special devices that simply give you several sliders to
control MIDI based controls for synths, and these could easily be adapted
for animation inputs.

Have I mentioned anything that sparks interest with any of you?
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 014
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Fri, 16 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 15

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:24:41 EST
Subject: Re: Ideas for scripting software

>I was hoping that there might be some sort of standard I could use that
would both allow me to script the movements of the puppet and also do
synchronized sound.
>Eventually I found the device from MediaMation that is a MIDI-to-Servo
adapter, which was ideal.
>why don't you also plan on using
MIDI based sequencers and then the only code you need to control is what is
necessary to intercept the MIDI data (perhaps within the computer itself)
and then re-direct the information to the RS-232 port if that is what you
prefer. Well, actually since virtually all modern computers have the MIDI
port anyway, you could just go with the MIDI interface anyway.

DOH !! . . ok . . *click*. . . lurk mode [ Off ]

Yeah I saw that about 2 weeks ago (Scott McDonnell (DevilinGR@aol.com) pointed
it out) . . . http://www.mediamat.com/midipwm.htm . . .
It's set up to control 8 servos based on the midi-controller data that it
recieves through a ? midi-in-port .

The only thing I don't like about it is that it's $200 :( . . right Now I'd
even settle for realtime recording software that will take in the midi Clock-
Signal !

There IS a drawback with midi data in that it'll start to Choke once you start
trying to get a bunch of variable-controller data running down the midi-cable
(8 servos probably works fine though)

_ _ _ _midi speech starting .. . now _ _ _

MIDI is basically a serial format .
MIDI DATA consists of . . note On/Off signals (That's why sounds get stuck ON
when your computer-game jams up) . . miscellanious data (like different modes,
sound # changes, audio filter levels etc.) . . variable data (like volume
controls, modulation pedals, stuff you can alter While you're playing a
keyboard or whatever) . . . and a Clock Signal ! (clicks away while a midi-
recorder is running)

MIDI is just Great when you're recording a bunch of Note On/Off signals into a
sequencer (midi recorder) but when you start including variable controllers
(volume changes, pedal movements, pitch changes) things start to sputter a
little .

My Point IS . . .
"One" of the ways they get around this is to Syncronize TWO or more midi-
recorders by having One of them send it's "Clock" signal to the other .
(Push the [GO] button on the first and the others click along right in sync)

_ _ _ end midi ramblings _ _ _

Personally "I'D" like to see more midi to servo interfaces out there but if I
had to settle for a second choice, I'd settle for a (realtime functioning) pc
based servo-control-program that At Least payed attention to a midi clock
signal

There's a few CHEAP boxes out there that you can buy that transfer a midi
clock signal to and from a recorded audio track .
(look for J.L Cooper PPS systems (poor persons smpte) under $100 nowadays)

Well . . this IS coming from someone on a looooow budget (although not skimpin
on the silicone) . . but it'd be nice to somehow find a way to Syncronize
something to my little Scott-Edwards type cards .

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
(home of over 850 links to Animatronics/ Robotics & Special Effects)
c40179@aol.com

Man I hope that email is coherant . . . I've been kinda delirious ever since a
20 hour shift at work :)

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:07:39 +0000
Subject: Re: Overview of Servo Systems

The serial part is much easier than you think. Radio Control systems are
serial. The transmitter sends each servo pulse one after another, ie
serially. The receiver has a decoder that separates the channels.

A *very* simple 2 chip (hex inverter and shift register) circuit is all you
need to separate the channels. Up to 10 (I think) channels just plug into
the outputs of the shift register. The controller chip just has to output
the channels one at a time to the decoder via a 2 wire cable. It's slightly
more complex because you need a sync pulse, etc, but very easily done. One
of my first controllers was built that way and it worked perfectly.

The nice part about serial is that you can embed the tiny, inexpensive
decoder board in the character and just trail 2 wires to the controller.

In fact, if you desire you can delete the 2 wire cable and use either RF or
IR to link the controller to the character.

Mark

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:07:42 +0000
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

At 02:54 PM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Mark,Your system sounds good ,but how would you get it to work with a audio
>track ?It seems like a natural for a go motion kind of use.
>
>
>Eric Princz
>

Robotic arms don't need a sound track :-)

Let me think about it for a day or so.

Exactly what has to be synchronized? Do certain movements have to be done at
certain parts of the audio? Does there have to be a 1:1 correspondence
between the audio 'time' and the servo controller 'time'. Is the audio
usually on tape? CD? CR Rom? Live?

It would seem that all that is necessary is to sync the controller clock to
the audio clock so that both would see the same time since the performance
began. Is it necessary to only sync the start of the servo program to the
start of the audio program, or does there have to be sync pulses throughout??

A digital sound source should have an accurate clock so that just synching
the start should be good enough, but an analog sound source might have
significant variations from performance to performance. Am I correct in
these assumptions???

If the audio 'screws up' due to analog machine problems (tape binding, etc)
do we expect the servo controller to compensate?? If so, we are making this
into an interesting problem! We then have to define where the servos have to
be at each sync pulse. We have to tell the controller, eg, at sync pulse
number 56 initiate this movement.

Ideas: Embedding sync pulses in an unused channel? Embedding high freq sync
pulses on the used channel? The simplest way might be to put a clock circuit
in the audio source that starts when the audio starts and directly feeds the
start sync signals to the servo controller. In simplest form, the first
audio 'heard' could be considered the start pulse.

Any thoughts or comments??

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:54:33 EST
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

Mark,think your last solution is probably the best((but it dosent compensate
for tape screw ups))If you were to use two 567 phase loops one at 1khz and the
other say at 256 hz record them on an unused track,the 1khz signal could reset
the memory((start at address 0)) and the other could be the carrier tone that
if you divide the frequency down you can get standard animatronic clock rates
ie.16 fps/24fps etc.this is kind of the way the old gilderfluke systems worked
to link to a audio track.
My goal in life is to find a chip/microcontroler that can read SMPTE code
and output an address,you would think that SOMEONE would have made a single
chip stand alone SMPTE solution but my quest has been like searching for the
holy grail.
Have any of you microcontroler/zylinx people done any attempts at this?

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:05:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

At 10:19 AM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Mark,think your last solution is probably the best((but it dosent compensate
>for tape screw ups))If you were to use two 567 phase loops one at 1khz and the
>other say at 256 hz record them on an unused track,the 1khz signal could reset
>the memory((start at address 0)) and the other could be the carrier tone that
>if you divide the frequency down you can get standard animatronic clock rates
>ie.16 fps/24fps etc.this is kind of the way the old gilderfluke systems worked
>to link to a audio track.
> My goal in life is to find a chip/microcontroler that can read SMPTE code
>and output an address,you would think that SOMEONE would have made a single
>chip stand alone SMPTE solution but my quest has been like searching for the
>holy grail.
>Have any of you microcontroler/zylinx people done any attempts at this?
>
>Eric Princz

Sigh, here's my ignorance being displayed again. First, what does 16fps or
24fps mean? Frames per second? What does that have to do with animatronics,
or has it something to do with the film industry?

I don't need a tone decoder (567) since I can easily detect a 1khz tone in
software, especially if it's a square wave and all I have to do is wait for it.

Since the controller already has digital input lines, it would also be
*very* easy to tell the controller to 'move here then wait for the next sync
pulse before continuing'.
One could even designate the frequency of the sync pulse to expect. A piece
of cake to implement - would probably take less than an hour to program into
the controller (and 2 days to debug).

Second bit of ignorance. What is SMPTE code?

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:10:24 EST
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

Hey Mark,sorry.fps is frames per second usually 16 for most animatronic shows
and SMPTE is a time code that is used for sync in video,film,laserdisk and
most other types of controlers.Its good points are
its an exact code that can be read in any direction((forward &reverse)) so if
you were to fast forward or reverse the tape((or laser disk))you would know
where you are in the program and your animatronic would still be in sync,all
the other show equipment can also sync to the same signal,the bad point is its
a complex data stream prone to dropout((signal glitches)).
Has anyone explored the possability of dmx512 lighting control signal
in place of midi ?I don't know much about the code but it controls lots of
analog signals and some lighting i think uses pulse width
modulation((servo?))Oh,well
some thing to ponder.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: "Bruce A. Bergman" <bbergman@doctord.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:50:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

At 10:19 AM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
> My goal in life is to find a chip/microcontroler that can read SMPTE code
>and output an address,you would think that SOMEONE would have made a single
>chip stand alone SMPTE solution but my quest has been like searching for the
>holy grail.
>Have any of you microcontroler/zylinx people done any attempts at this?

Probably one of the BEST places to check is the Motorol 68hc05 family. All
those chips are custom, then made into a product. And there are about 200
of them. Weird varieties. Check out Motorola's site and see if they have
something you're looking for.

thanks,

bruce

==================================================================================

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:14:54 EST
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

>What does that have to do with animatronics,
or has it something to do with the film industry?

>Second bit of ignorance. What is SMPTE code?

that's funny . . I kinda saw that one coming . . LOL :)

Since wer'e talkin about Syncronization (and so "We're" all syncronized) here
goes My ramblings again before I go to work ( gonna get in a whooole 3 hours
today . . my life's so cushy :)

Actually I Do like the avantages of having a system where you can program in
positions etc. and just tell the servos where to go at what speeds etc.
( when you see that happening in real life ( like on an industrial robot ) it
Totally blows "me" away !! )
It's like zzzt Bam and it's there or zzzzzt Bam . .now it's in some other
position .
( Or Can be slower if you program it that way . . . but there's something
about that instant accuracy that you can achieve that makes me drool :)

The thing with Animatronics is that you're Usually trying to put on a show ..
or get a graceful (but not robotically accurate) movement . .. which means
maybe trying to record several moves of an arm at the same time . . .while
Probably trying to be syncronized with music . . .
((( Or the REAL test we should mention . . Trying to syncronize the JAW with
an audio track of your Character Speaking' . . . try to do thAt without
syncronization ! )))

SMPTE is a time code that you put on an audio track that Other devices (that
have smpte reading capability) can sync to .
Mostly it's used in the video indutry (stands for "Society of Motion Picture
and Television Engineers" !) THAT's how they can get audio and Video . . . no
wait . . THAT's how they can get 10 FrEaKin Video recorders and 5 Audio
Recorders to All Syncronize with one another ! LOL :)
(You just hit the [GO] button on One device and THUD ! . .Every Device in the
Studio can Chugg right into motion (all staying in sync for as long as you
want) Aaaaand . . if you stop the One device , hit reverse for 10 seconds and
push play again . . Every Other FrEaKiN Device in the studio Stops, Backs up
too, and starts again !
( There's that robotic accuracy again . . . siiiigh . . . . . . .drool . . . .
oops, i'm back)

( an easier explanation . . . Y'Know those #'s you see on the video screen
when someone is editing a video professionally ? . . That's smpte ! . . . it
count's off each video frame . (you can even see it in the form of little
white dots on that black bar in between video frames that you see when the
horzontal hold on your tv go's outta whack :)

Nowadays you don't just find syncronization like that in video and audio
devices !
MIDI (musical instrument digital interface) is sort of a poor mans smpte
(mostly for musicians)
It Used to "just" be for Keyboards ! (If you have two keyboards with a midi
cable connecting them . . you can hit a key on One and the Other will THINK
you hit the same key on IT ! . . That way you can have a "piano sound" coming
from One keyboard, but have a "Violin Orchestra sound" coming from the second
. . . when you hear it in real life it makes alot of sense ! It makes you
sound like you're playing a whole Orchestra ! ( hence soome orchestra people
Don't Like Midi :)
( with MIDI you're able to connect 16 keyboards in a row . . . making a
Biiiig orchestra . . . ( oh great now I'm breathin heavy again :)

Anyway . . . NOW that midi has been around a while . . it's not just for
keyboards anymore .
Since keyboards have built in sequencers . . (pay attention ot this part . . .
a sequencer's a midi recorder . . sorta . . it "doesn't" record Audio . . it
records the "Note data" like . . C# ON . . . C# OFF. . . F# ON . . .and VOLUME
LEVEL's etc . . . But so fast that you can record an entire song with it.)
Since keboards have sequencers alot of the time . . it was a natural
progression that people started syncronizing their keyboard equipment TO the
Audio equipment .
(As In . . . you hit the [GO] button on the tape recorder . . and the Tape
Starts . . The Keyboard starts Playing Itself ( built in midi recorder's
playing ) . . the Drum Machine bangs right along in sync . . and NOWADAYS the
stage lighting sytem / Video Decks / Audio Mixers (with automated sliders) /
Laserbeams and ANIMATRONIC CHARACTERS All start running their prerecorded
movements together too .

It's so FrEaKiN Beautiful it brings a tear to my eye :~( sniff sniff

Anyway . . alot of this stuff can be edited "bit by bit" too (It's Usually
called editing in "Step mode") point by point .
The big thing in animatronics sometimes is usually getting a quick performance
recorded entirely and Easiliy because you're usually trying to get arm / body
movements to Flooooow at a certain rate . . . or trying to get the Jaw to
really look like the character's Speaking (if you're off just in the Slightest
you'll hear some kid in the back "Heeeeeeey . . .he's not really talkin ! . .
.WAAAAAAAA ! " ( ok that part was hypothetical :)

anyway . . work time

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy wannabe
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
c40179@aol.com

ps: I STILL Like the step by step method for ALOT of things though so don't
get bummed ! :)

I'LL Buy one !!
I can use it to do testing while I'm building stuff ( or for demonstrations!
) . . that's an instance where I don't WANT to Have to record a bunch of
syncronized movements !

(geez . . did I Miss anything anybody ??)

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:25:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Overview of Servo Systems

OF course, a person can simply buy a cheap, old computer to control a
puppet. You probably can even tap the power supply to power the servos. I
think you can get old 486's for around $200. Of course, you don't get the
monitor with it, and it is not exactly a tiny device, but they are
available. Include a cheap sound card, and you have audio playback as well.

Another possible playback device is a Game boy. I came across a web sight
by a person who has written a basic compiler and included special servo
control commands in it. The program is actually written on a PC and then
downloaded to the Gameboy. He also has cicuits for connecting input and
output to it. I just looked to see if I still had the URL saved, but I didn't.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:25:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Overview of Servo Systems...here's what we did!!!

> about nine years ago developed a system for
>controling 48 rc servos off of cassette tape,the system programmed off of a
>C-64((that really shows you how dated this was))the data track was then dumped
>to the left data track while the voice/music track was on the right side.

>Eric Princz
>Creative Design & Engineering

I had considered designing such a system myself, but with a lack of
someone to pay for me to do so, I was not quite modivated enough. This
seemed to be the ideal situation.
I was also thinking about what the easiest method of recording the
movements might be. If the pitch and durration of various tones is the
encoding method, perhaps a MIDI or audio sequencer could be a possible
answer. Well, actually I doubt MIDI converted to sound can really be the
method because it may not be precise enough with critically timed events.
But perhaps the control tones that eventually get recorded to the tape can
be edited using a multitrack audio editor. Once the movements are finalized,
all the tracks can be merged into one track.
But a method like this would require a compatable encoding scheme... what
was the encoding method you used for your C64 tape method?

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:56:17 EST
Subject: Re: Overview of Servo Systems...here's what we did for encoding

The C-64 output a data stream with sync pulses, the data was in a pwm format
the servos we used had used the old signetics NE544 servo driver chip so when
we went up to 48 channels we had to modify the timing of the servos to respond
to a different pulse width((just soldering a 10k resistor did the trick,I also
put a dip switch in the bears so that I could change the pulse width back when
I wanted to puppet the bears live with my Futaba rc unit))the sync pulse was
used to tell the shift registers when to shift/output the servo data the
stream was also sent thru a cap./resistor circuit to generate clock pulses.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:22:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Overview of Servo Systems

>This all sounds pretty cool. We were in the middle of developing something
>very similar - a two-joystick black box for driving 4 servos, that could
>plug into another module with memory that could record all the signals. The
>second module could then play back the signals independently to the
>character.

One problem I ran into as I was looking at other, apparently, similar
systems is that 4 servos is about the max that you can expect a person to
deal with at one time by using two joysticks. And even then, you are going
to have to spend some time practicing to get everyting "programmed" into
your own head. With many puppets this is not as difficult, because the
movements of the controls are more directly connected to the puppet. A
joystick is just much more removed from the operation of the puppet and so
is much harder to get your mind to successfully remember how to do all the
movements you are imagining.
I think it is very important to be able to record movements one at a time
if necessary. Ideally you should also be able to go back and edit things,
well... at least go back and re-record each track over again.
Also, 4 movements is not alot, there must be plans for significant
expansion of the number of signals and a means of recording the movements.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:22:56 -0500
Subject: Servo control Chips with MIDI input

>Well . . this IS coming from someone on a looooow budget (although not skimpin
>on the silicone) . . but it'd be nice to somehow find a way to Syncronize
>something to my little Scott-Edwards type cards .
>
>Chris Hillman

Before I found Mediamation's MIDI-to-Servo device, I was considering
asking Scott Edwards about adapting his serial-to-servo chip to accept MIDI
data and if he said no, to consider purchasing a PLC programmer and trying
it myself. I don't think there would be a great deal of difference between
a chip that accepts RS232 and one that accepts MIDI. You just have to be
familiar with the standard.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:23:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

> Has anyone explored the possability of dmx512 lighting control signal
>in place of midi

>Eric Princz

I am on a lighting developers list (as a lurker only) and it seems that
DMX512 it not extremely easy to implement. Whereas I have seen many
do-it-yourself kits to do MIDI or RS232 interfaces.

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:22:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Control systems,what about audio?

>It would seem that all that is necessary is to sync the controller clock to
>the audio clock so that both would see the same time since the performance
>began. Is it necessary to only sync the start of the servo program to the
>start of the audio program, or does there have to be sync pulses throughout??
>
>A digital sound source should have an accurate clock so that just synching
>the start should be good enough, but an analog sound source might have
>significant variations from performance to performance. Am I correct in
>these assumptions???

In investigating some of the issues, I ended up planning on using either a
soni MiniDisk or a 4 tack tape with a SMPTE time signal on one of the
tracks. A 2 track tape wouldn't do because of crossover between the two
adjacent tracks. The MidiDisk has complete isolation between the tracks
because it is a digital audio format. Burning a CD would have similar benefits.
But, if the motions are being cued from the signal in a SMPTE code, then
the digital formats would have absolutely reliable times for playback. All
you would need to is make sure the playback of the audio and motion started
at the same time, then they would stay in sync.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: "Martin Coster" mrc@pacific.net.sg
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:09:46 +0800
Subject: DMX and audio

> > Has anyone explored the possability of dmx512 lighting control signal
> >in place of midi
>>
> >Eric Princz
>
> I am on a lighting developers list (as a lurker only) and it seems that
> DMX512 it not extremely easy to implement. Whereas I have seen many
> do-it-yourself kits to do MIDI or RS232 interfaces.
>
> Joe Dunfee
> Miami, Florida USA
>

DMX-512 consists of a pretty basic format, and follows the RS-485
electrical spec. The data stream starts with a sync byte, and is then
followed by upto 512 level bytes - it's fixed as that. You don't need to
transmit all 512 level bytes, as soon as the receiver gets the sync byte
again it assumes your back to channel 1.

As for any animatronics application for DMX-512, the new Gilderfluke
systems (PC-Macs et al) use DMX-512 for their control. However, the true
DMX-512 1992 standard allows for only a one-way link, from the controller
to the peripheral. Newer DMX systems are starting to allow for a
bi-directional link, but it's all a bit limited. At the end of the day I'd
say you're better off with another format.

However a big plus about DMX is that it's RS-485, which means it's a
balanced line signal - electrically very 'tough'. RS232 and MIDI are not,
and this restricts data rate, cable runs to ~50m max (on a good day with
the wind behind you) and they are suscuptiple to interference from dimmers,
big motors and other RFI.

Best bet is to use the 'open' data formats such as you may already have
(MIDI or just straight serial commands), but transmit / receive everything
using RS485 or RS422. That way you can up your data rate and get very
reliable communication.

On the subject of step-programming, I agree that there are applications for
both, but as Chris Hilman says, try programming a mouth movement one step
at a time! In a short 1-2 minute show you could have say 400+ commands to
program, each of which needs to be in perfect (?) sync with the
sound-track. NO WAY! You need to do this type of movement 'live', just
tapping at a button, or wiggling a fader as you hear the sound-track.

As for digital sound, I have installed many systems which start an
animation routine and the digital sound store with one start pulse, and let
them free-run together. As was said before, the two systems should be
fairly well in time still, even after a lengthy speech. However, during
programming this would not work, as you need SMPTE to run over things in a
random order. Obviously you don't want to have to start from the top
eveytime, when it may be only the last 10 seconds of a 10 minute show
that's wrong!

Hope this helps!

Martin Coster
AFX Singapore

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 015
==================================================================================
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Sat, 17 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 16

ANIMATRONICS-L at FatCity.com
Archives - ( page 3 )

From ANIMATRONICS-L Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:55:01 local from fatcity
X-Digest: Yes
To: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com
From: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com (Animatronics Mailing List)

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:44:44 EST
Subject: A-List: (gameboy address & fake skin question)

<< Another possible playback device is a Game boy. I came across a web sight
by a person who has written a basic compiler and included special servo
control commands in it. The program is actually written on a PC and then
downloaded to the Gameboy. He also has cicuits for connecting input and
output to it. I just looked to see if I still had the URL saved, but I
didn't.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA >>

That's funny ! . . touchtone@aol.com (Mike Seidman) were just talking (well .
.typing) about that earlier today !

the address is . . .
http://hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/gameboy/

Oh my God !! :) LOL . . . wow the robot didn't have the arm last year !! .
.and the site GREW ! LOL

oh well . . to help with some pre-screening . . . there's a pic of the robot
here . . .
http://hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/gameboy/robottop.jpg

there's a pic of the Older robot "I" remember here . . .
http://hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/gameboy/fl1.gif

There's a schematic for the servos/gameboy here . . .
http://hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/gameboy/gbrps.gif

but as for the actual program I'm not sure which one is it exactly . .there's
soooo many now . . . I vaguely recall that one of the GB-Basic programs had
instructions for controlling servos . . but i'm not sure .

go ahead and dig :)

and . uh oh . . there's an entire GAMEBOY WEBRING here . . .
http://www.geneticfantasia.com/html/webring.html

I Do hope That "first" site was the one you were referring to .

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy wannabe
http://www.ChristopherHIllman.com
c40179@aol.com

by the way . . anybody have any amazing secrets to making realistic silicone
skin ??
I already know about using clear silicone / making usable paint by thinning
down silicone caulk with Naptha and tiniting with "universal tints" / using
flocking to add texture / painting in viens etc. from the back / I was hoping
for some good suggestions on . . i dunno . . something interesting I could mix
in with the silicone maybe . . some kind of suggestion as to "how to paint the
silicone from the back when you Still have to leave the silicone In the Mould"
. .
someone suggested making a Clear Mould . . .
Is "Making the mould out of PolyOptic or something" a real option if I want to
get a usable cast (skin texture and all ?)

let me know .

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:17:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Well, here's my thoughts.

Devilin GR wrote:
---snip ---
> Currently the best lip designs I've seen use four actuators, not
> including the three degrees of jaw movement.

I have been working on hands recently and have not yet worked on lips.
Where can I find out more about lip design?

Three degrees of jaw movement? What are the three degrees?

> Author: Devilin GR
> INET: DevilinGR@aol.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5030 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet Access
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:19:24 +0000
Subject: Re: Servo control Chips with MIDI input

It seems to me that midi is a 'language', while rs232 is a voltage standard
for serial data transmission. I.e., you can send midi information over a
rs232 line. I assume midi is often sent that way?? The problem is doing
something with that information.

Scott's ssi board uses a very simple PIC chip. It is not capable of doing
very much to begin with, and certainly can't interpret midi commands while
handling it's servo responsibilities.

I (and Scott too, I'm very sure) could program a device to accept midi data
and interpret it. Does anyone know at what rate it is usually sent? I guess
I would need a midi primer to see what's feasible.

Mark Lerman

> Before I found Mediamation's MIDI-to-Servo device, I was considering
>asking Scott Edwards about adapting his serial-to-servo chip to accept MIDI
>data and if he said no, to consider purchasing a PLC programmer and trying
>it myself. I don't think there would be a great deal of difference between
>a chip that accepts RS232 and one that accepts MIDI. You just have to be
>familiar with the standard.
>Joe Dunfee

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:19:26 +0000
Subject: SMPTE

Could someone email, fax or point me towards more info on SMPTE. I'll do a
search on the net when I get some time.

I gather it's a digital timing code that's usually(?) put on a separate
audio channel. How is it encoded? Is it a series of differing frequencies?
How is it usually decoded, and what is the result? Is it a series of numbers
running consecutively? How many per second? Etc. :-)

If there is enough interest, I might be interested in modifying my
controller to sync with smtp. You could then tell it what movements to sync
to what smpte codes. It could also look out for missing codes and compensate
(mostly) for them.

I could also use some samples of SMPTE encoded audio - a CD would be best. I
would be happy to pay for the disk and shipping.

Any interest??

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Robert rbarch@tristate.pgh.net
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:03:23 -0500
Subject: Fake Skin

There does not seem to be a lot of other things that can be done to
silicone to make it more realistic. Alot depends upon the person's
artistic ability.
Besides what was already mentioned there are two other things:
some people have tried to use tattoo equipment to color the silicone skin.
Painting the skin with diluted silicone will ruin any skin texture that the
cast had when it was removed from the mold. It is better to try to find
some sort of a staining agent and try to use it to color the skin instead.
People have also tried to sandblast the surface. This in itself
forces color into the surface and also removes the glossy sheen that may be
on the surface.
Painting the surface from the outside in would be a good method
but it takes just alot of artistic skill and pratice.
Robert

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 MONKEE1291@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:00:54 EST
Subject: Re: SMPTE

VERY INTERESTED MARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll see what I can dig up.Animatronics usually use 30 frame non -drop,if I
remember right its a 96 bit code<im not sure about this but ill look it up)
besides the data for time there are several user bits for other info.I have a
book that sort of covers it ,but Ill have to find it.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee jdunfee@shadow.net
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:34:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Servo control Chips with MIDI input

>I (and Scott too, I'm very sure) could program a device to accept midi data
>and interpret it. Does anyone know at what rate it is usually sent? I guess
>I would need a midi primer to see what's feasible.
>
>Mark Lerman

Sorry, dispite my flow of ideas, I haven't persued many of them and am
only passingly familiar with the MIDI standard.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 016
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Sun, 18 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 17

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:11:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Introduction

Steve Weber wrote:
>
> Hi to all,
---snip---
> I want to join forces with some talented engineers in California who
> would be interested in working with me in developing some practicle
> devices for live puppet manipulation.
> I'm not advocating the use of animatronics or
> mechanics as a method of replacing human control...but rather a way to
> augment it to increase the dramatic impact.......

Steve, While I am not in California, I am connected by e-mail only a
couple of days away by UPS.

What would you be interested in doing?

> I look forward to hear from any of you who would be interested in
> helping to carry the art
> of puppetry a little further along..and have some
> fun in the process!
>
> Peace,
> Steve Weber
> The Laughing Egg Studio
>
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:38:53 +0000
Subject: Re: SMPTE

Eric and anyone else,

Got some good references on SMPTE. 80 bits, 30FPS, no drops is what I am
assuming is generally used in animatronics.

A few more questions before I get out the soldering iron and programmer: :-)

1. Do tapes come with pre recorded smpte stripes, or are they generally
added by the user?

2. Tape machines that have smpte output. Does the output come via a special
smpte jack, or it just another audio channel? Is the output just the raw
audio, or do these recorders digitalize the timecode? If raw audio, what is
the signal strength?

3. Does anyone have a circuit diagram for a smpte decoder that I could look at?

At 05:03 PM 1/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>VERY INTERESTED MARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>I'll see what I can dig up.Animatronics usually use 30 frame non -drop,if I
>remember right its a 96 bit code-im not sure about this but ill look it up)
>besides the data for time there are several user bits for other info.I have a
>book that sort of covers it ,but Ill have to find it.
>
>Eric Princz
>Creative Design & Engineering
> Monkee1291@aol.com
>--
>Author: MONKEE1291
> INET: MONKEE1291@aol.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5030 FAX: (619) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet Access
>-------------------------
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 MONKEE1291@aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:51:59 EST
Subject: Re: SMPTE - more info

Mark and others,SMPTE track is recorded((or striped as its actually called))on
a unused audio track,its usually at 0db on the vu meter((this isn't too
critical)) it is generated by a SMPTE encoder pc based ones are about $150.00
rack mounts are about $500.00 and up I cant understand why they are so costly
other than the fact that they are concidered "professional video gear" they
come out on a rca or xlr jack.
There are several books out on ALL the standards and how to work with them
midi ,SMPTE,512,dmx etc. I saw them a while ago but i can't remember where.I
know that it was a catalog that sold books for music and lighting designers
maby there on line?I'll try to search.

Eric Princz
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: "Dean Burell" dburell@primenet.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:06:20 -0700
Subject: Newbie on the loose!!!

Hi everyone.
I am new to animatronics (i.e. looking for a new hobby), and I was curious
what the difference was between a
servo motor and a stepper motor. I understand that the stepper has "little
steps" that allow you to control
the postion. Does the servo have a similar mechanism? If not what makes it
different than a regular motor?

I've got lots of questions, but these should get me started on my way to a
better understanding.

Also, If anyone has any stories about how they used household or common
items to make animatronic
things, I would love to see them posted here. I have accumulated several
PC's over the years and various
components (motors, switches, etc) from broken electronic/electrical
appliances and I was curious to see
whether any of it could be used to make something interesting.

Thanks,

Dean

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 017
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Mon, 19 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 18

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:00:19 EST
Subject: Re: Newbie on the loose!!!

>Newbie on the loose!!!

That's ok . . that's what keeps things fun ! :)

>what the difference was between a servo motor and a stepper motor.

Well this is kind of a crappy description but Yeah the stepper runs in steps
more or less . . .you're actually activating maybe 3 or 4 (or more) sets of
coils inside the stepper-motor in a sequence to Make the motor rotate exactly
the way you want it (Really cool when you want to make a motor spin exactly
1000 times then Stop on a dime ! :) . .Takes alot "electronic wise" to get
the thing running though . . .you have to send power in the right "Sequence"
etc. over 5 or more wires probably. )

Usually when people talk about servos ( around here :) they're talking about
the ones found in Radio-Control-Airplanes etc.
The nice thing about those is that they're cheapy ( about $11.50 for the cheap
ones . . . they're ok too :) and internally they're powered by the same
standard gold motor you find in just about Every toy you've ever had . . but
it's geared down so it's nice and strong for it's size .

The way they work though is that you send ? 5volts ? into them for overall
power and get them to move the way you want by also sending a pulse signal
into them .
(there's a little circuit-board inside that looks at the width of the pulse
and sends the 5volts to the motor to make it move accordingly)
Wide pulse in . . circuit board makes the motor spin till the main gear
rotates to the right 45degrees . . . small pulse in - - circuit board makes
the motor go Left 45degrees etc. or whatever :)
( The circuit board knows what position the main gear is at because there's a
little potentiometer stuck to the end of the shaft )

It's Actually really nice because once you run power to all the servos . .it
only takes the one (well two) wires to send a pulse signal through to run them

There's a few interface boards out there that you can buy that'll connect 8 -
16 servos to a pc ($30 - $75 usually) (Scott Edwards / Pontech / the guy at
www.Robotnet.com . . .that runs 16 . . . I forget the name)

>Also, If anyone has any stories about how they used household or common items
to make animatronic things, I would love to see them posted here.

oh good . . . a chance to reminice :)
Actually a loong time ago in High School I basically tore stuff apart ( toys
etc.) to make little robot type gadgets that just rolled around on the floor
and were controlled by an umbilicle-cord and box etc.
When the senior Science-Fair rolled around I went all out and tried my best at
putting together an upper torso of a figure .
I did the latex mask bit to make the face (didn't work out well . . left it
off) . . included a couple airpax steppers to run the neck axis etc. . . . but
to run things like the eyes I used a stepper motor I pulled out of an
Airplane-Altimeter I had lying around ( life was great back then :) I Think it
was from a WWII-Grumman or something . . it was moved by squeezing two Tyco-
racetrack hand controllers . The up / dwn movement was run by a motor system
I got out of an old Talking Viewmaster .
(and other things like that)
actual (fuzzy) exploded schematic at . . .
http://members.aol.com/ANIMATRNIC/pic7.html
( i Hope that's it .)
Nowadays I've been playing around with those little motorized candy-dispensers
you get at the 7-11 (from CapToys) . . . I've actually been using those to
power smaller parts in window-displays !
(Powered two little elves in the Santas Workshop display during Christmas)

uh oh . . . maybe that doesn't count as Household items though :(

As for bonafied household items . . . . . I guess my vote would be for the
instructional video I saw where the guy used Ice-Cream-Scoops to make an
eyelid system !

>I have accumulated several PC's over the years and various components
(motors, switches, etc) from broken electronic/electrical appliances and I was
curious to see whether any of it could be used to make something interesting.

well y'know the best way to make the jump right out of the gate is probably to
try the pc-relay-kit from "Marlin P. Jones Associates" . . I Think their url
is . . .
http://www.mpja.com . . . there's a relay card that you plug into your pc
that lets you control power to 8 devices .
It's like $59 or so . . not Too bad . Unless you want to scout around the net
and figure out how to build one yourself .
(One of the best books I've found for that is . . . "Controlling the World
With Your PC" by Paul Bergsman . . . although I've heard there are errors in
the info / scematics etc. . . it's still a nice book . . ecpecially for $35 ?

I've also heard alot about pulling the stepper motors out of Floppy Disk
drives to play around with !

Chris Hillman
ANimatronics guy (in progess)
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
( home of over 850 links to Animatronics/ Robotics/ & Special-Effects !)
c40179@aol.com

If you can use any more info like That on servos or pc-interfacing ,I'd say to
hit the Robotics FAQ at . . .
http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/robotics-faq/TOC.html
There's a Ton of info on servos / motors / Pc-Connections (I Think !) / etc.
etc. etc.
Definitely worth a look .

I saw a guy who used an oscillating fan to make a 2 foot wide eyeball move
left / right the other day ! . . . kewl :)

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:33:12 +0000
Subject: Re: Newbie on the loose!!!

At 10:19 PM 1/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi everyone.
>I am new to animatronics (i.e. looking for a new hobby), and I was curious
>what the difference was between a
>servo motor and a stepper motor. I understand that the stepper has "little
>steps" that allow you to control
>the postion. Does the servo have a similar mechanism? If not what makes it
>different than a regular motor?
>

Another answer is that servos are closed-loop, i.e. you tell it where you
want to position, and the internal electronics puts it there, while steppers
are open-loop, meaning you tell it how many steps you want it to make and it
does so. Of course, you can close the loop on steppers, but it makes it much
more complicated.

Steppers generally can go round and round as many times as you want, but
servos are generally limited to 90-180 degrees of rotation.

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Monta Elkins monta@bev.net
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:52:15 -0500
Subject: Servo vs. stepper and how to start Was: Newbie on the loose!!!

Dean Burell wrote:

> Hi everyone.
> I am new to animatronics (i.e. looking for a new hobby), and I was curious
> what the difference was between a
> servo motor and a stepper motor. I understand that the stepper has "little
> steps" that allow you to control
> the postion. Does the servo have a similar mechanism? If not what makes it
> different than a regular motor?

The difference is in the "feedback".

For a servo, you tell it to go to a particular location (for example using the
width
of a pulse) and it adjusts itself until it reaches the specified location. If
it is "bumped",
it will try to return to the specified location.

"Model Airplane" style RC servo's are cheap and easy to use and cost about
$12.00
on the low end. On the other hand, they cannot be easily controlled directly
from a PC
because of timing constraints. I send commands out the serial port to a
microcontroller
called a "BASIC STAMP 2" and let the stamp run the servos. You can easily buy
such
devices as well.

A stepper motor has no built in feed back. You tell a stepper motor to make a
certain
number of steps to go a particular location. It will "try" to make those
steps, but it might
slip. If it slips it will not be positioned correctly. Stepper motors are
often indexed from
a known location. Know how disk drives move when the PC is first booted?
That motion
moves the stepper motor in the drives until they interrupt an IR light- thus
providing
a known starting location. From there steps are counted.

> I've got lots of questions, but these should get me started on my way to a
> better understanding.
>
> Also, If anyone has any stories about how they used household or common
> items to make animatronic
> things, I would love to see them posted here. I have accumulated several
> PC's over the years and various
> components (motors, switches, etc) from broken electronic/electrical
> appliances and I was curious to see
> whether any of it could be used to make something interesting.

Sounds like an excellent starting place.
I like using computer equipment, because most of the componenets are already
in place.
Pull stepper motors out of old 5.25 floppy disk drives. You can even leave
the control
circuitry in place and control it with simple pulses out the parallel port.
You can use an
"old" 8086 to control the steppers without worrying about blowing the parallel
port in
you regular computer. Extend one of the PC's internal power cables outside
the box
to power your stepper.

If you're just starting- and you want to learn to build these things on your
own;
try disassembling a floppy and connecting it to the parallel port. There is a
good
web page out lining the procedure.

http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/stepper/tm100/index.html#pcb

P.S.
A Question:
----------

Anyone know where I can find the rated life of stepper motors?
I was using a servo 24 * 7 and it failed in under 3 months.

-Monta Elkins

----------------------------
"And the world will be better for this: That one man scorned and
covered with scars, still strove with his last ounce of courage;
to reach the unreachable stars"
System Administrator - Blacksburg Electronic Village - www.bev.net
monta@bev.net - http://www.bev.net/project/people/monta
---------------------------

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:09:41 EST
Subject: SMPTE - SOME INFO I FOUND!

Well here it goes,I hope I can explain it clear:
Smpte code is a 80 bit code that uses biphase modulation(( a binary 0 is a
normal bit and a binary 1 is a transition within a bit cell boundry))`

MSD=MOST SIG.DIGIT LSD=LEAST SIG.DIGIT ((BINARY CODED DECIMAL))

BITS 0-4 LSD--------------------------FRAMES
BITS 5-8 OPTIONAL 0'''''''''''''((0 WHEN NOT USED THESE 32 BITS ARE FOR USER
BITS 9-12 MSD-------------------------FRAMES
BITS13-16 OPTIONAL 0''''''''''''''
BITS17-20 LSD-------------------------SECONDS
BITS21-24 OPTIONAL 0''''''''''''
BITS25-28 MSD------------------------SECONDS
BITS29-32 OPTIONAL 0''''''''
BITS33-36 LSD------------------------MINUTES
BITS37-40 OPTIONAL 0'''''''
BITS41-44 MSD-----------------------MINUTES
BITS45-48 OPTIONAL 0''''''
BITS49-52 LSD-----------------------HOURS
BITS53-56 OPTIONAL 0'''
BITS57-60 MSD----------------------HOURS
BITS61-64 OPTIONAL 0'''
BITS 65-80---------------------------------SYNC DATA

SYNC DATA DEFINES THE END OF EACH FRAME IT ALSO SIGNALS THE CONTROLING DEVICE
WHICH DIRECTION THE TAPE IS MOVING.
Eric Princz
Monkee1291@Aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:28:04 +0000
Subject: SMPTE

Hi Eric,

If I'm going to proceed with SMPTE synchronization, it looks like I'm going
to have to buy an encoder. Could you give me a name, preferably one with a
web presence, for a pc based encoder? Can I just use a simple 2 channel (ie
stereo) recorder with it?

What I'm shooting for is a complete controller system that also allows
playback with smpte synchronization, all at a *low* *low* price. We'll see
how feasible this is as my research progresses :-)

Any and all suggestions and ideas are welcome.

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:28:02 +0000
Subject: Re: SMPTE - SOME INFO I FOUND!

Also is a very nice explanation at:

http://www.philrees.co.uk/articles/timecode.htm

Mark Lerman

At 09:21 AM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Well here it goes,I hope I can explain it clear:
>Smpte code is a 80 bit code that uses biphase modulation(( a binary 0 is a
>normal bit and a binary 1 is a transition within a bit cell boundry))`
>
>MSD=MOST SIG.DIGIT LSD=LEAST SIG.DIGIT ((BINARY CODED DECIMAL))
>
>BITS 0-4 LSD--------------------------FRAMES
>BITS 5-8 OPTIONAL 0'''''''''''''((0 WHEN NOT USED THESE 32 BITS ARE FOR USER
>BITS 9-12 MSD-------------------------FRAMES
>BITS13-16 OPTIONAL 0''''''''''''''
>BITS17-20 LSD-------------------------SECONDS
>BITS21-24 OPTIONAL 0''''''''''''
>BITS25-28 MSD------------------------SECONDS
>BITS29-32 OPTIONAL 0''''''''
>BITS33-36 LSD------------------------MINUTES
>BITS37-40 OPTIONAL 0'''''''
>BITS41-44 MSD-----------------------MINUTES
>BITS45-48 OPTIONAL 0''''''
>BITS49-52 LSD-----------------------HOURS
>BITS53-56 OPTIONAL 0'''
>BITS57-60 MSD----------------------HOURS
>BITS61-64 OPTIONAL 0'''
>BITS 65-80---------------------------------SYNC DATA
>
>SYNC DATA DEFINES THE END OF EACH FRAME IT ALSO SIGNALS THE CONTROLING DEVICE
>WHICH DIRECTION THE TAPE IS MOVING.
>Eric Princz
>
>Author: MONKEE1291
> INET: MONKEE1291@aol.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5030 FAX: (619) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet Access
>-------------------------
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:27:59 +0000
Subject: Servocontroller files

Hello all,

I have taken the liberty of placing 2 files in the List archives. They are
servo.zip and sprogram.zip. The first is a detailed description of my
servocontroller, it's operation and assembly. The second is a shell program
that works under dos to control 8 servos, including saving, editing and
making movement program files and many other features.

They may be retreived by emailing to Listguru@fatcity.com and using the GET
command in the body of the message. No subject is expected or required.

For instance:

GET ANIMATRONICS-L servo.zip
END

will retreive the servo.zip file.
(Which then has to be unzipped, of course)

The controllers are available from me for $18.00, ie my cost, to members of
this list. One per person, please.

==================================================================================

From: ScreamFX ScreamFX@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:03:30 EST
Subject: Animatronic Mouth

I received this e-mail a few days ago (through my web site) asking for some
help but I don't know the answer and don't want to leave him hanging. Can any
of you help out?
Thanks ahead of time!
Becky

>> Hi,
>> I'm a student from Glasgow University currently studying Mechanical Design
>> Engineering and I have a favour to ask. I have a final year project
regarding
>> designing a full motioned artificial human mouth for use in the dental
industry. >> Research has shown that it requires 5 degrees of motion so
obvoiusly a
>> mechanical mechanism would not work in thiis case. Hence I thought of
>> robotics and so after deciding animatronics was a good place to start came
>> across your web site (and very nice it is too!). I was wondering if any of
the
>> puppets etc. you work with replicte any such motion as chewing. I have no
>> knowledge of robotics and so do not grasp complexity, force generated etc.
The >> forces I need to generate in the closing of the mouth is (very)
approximetely 30 >> to 40Kg. Could a simple robotic system replicate such
force in a life size
>> artificial mouth?? If you could help in anyway or know of someone else who
>> could please reply.
>> Thank you for your time,

>> Regards

>> Stephen Courtnadge
>> 9403077c@mech.gla.ac.uk

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 018
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Tue, 20 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 19

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 03:47:43 EST
Subject: In Case you've Just Got ON the Animatronics List ! . . .

Hey Everybody . . .

Just in case you didn't realize it when you got the "help" mail ( hopefully
you Did get it :) you CAN see what you've missed here over the past couple
weeks pretty easily !

Just Type an email to . . .
ListGuru@FatCity.com
and in the Body of the email type . . .
INDEX ANIMATRONICS-L

You Should get something that looks like This ! . . .

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Index of Archive for : ANIMATRONICS-L <ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com>
Animatronics Mailing List

Filename Length Archived On Description
------------ ---------- -----------
-------------------------------------------
CONTENTS.TXT 357 07-Jan-1998 *** Jan 07 1998 ***
V1998.005 8,065 07-Jan-1998 Jan 07 1998
V1998.006 10,517 08-Jan-1998 Jan 08 1998
V1998.007 8,786 09-Jan-1998 Jan 09 1998
V1998.008 2,293 10-Jan-1998 Jan 10 1998
V1998.009 13,897 11-Jan-1998 Jan 11 1998
V1998.010 6,764 12-Jan-1998 Jan 12 1998
V1998.011 4,888 13-Jan-1998 Jan 13 1998
V1998.012 9,762 14-Jan-1998 Jan 14 1998
V1998.013 16,563 15-Jan-1998 Jan 15 1998
V1998.014 21,370 16-Jan-1998 Jan 16 1998
V1998.015 33,177 17-Jan-1998 Jan 17 1998
V1998.016 8,942 18-Jan-1998 Jan 18 1998
V1998.017 6,044 19-Jan-1998 Jan 19 1998
SERVO.ZIP 13,188 19-Jan-1998 Information on Mark Lerman's
servocontroller.
SPROGRAM.ZIP 50,958 19-Jan-1998 A dos executable file for Mark Lerman's
servocontroller.

Total Items: 16
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

When you get THAT . . all you have to do is hit reply and type . . .

GET ANIMATRONIICS-L (type whatever file you want here)
in the body of the email .

( As In . . . GET ANIMATRONICS-L V1998.005 )
( or . . . GET ANIMATRONICS-L SERVO.ZIP . . . like Mark was talking about :)

if you want to see Everything you've missed just type . . .
GET ANIMATRONICS-L V1998.005
GET ANIMATRONICS-L V1998.006
GET ANIMATRONICS-L V1998.007
and so on . . .
and so on . . . :)

( At Least That's The way "I" Understand It ! )
( Anybody Feel Free to Correct me if I'm Wrong ! ! )

Good Luck !

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
c40179@aol.com

( keepin my fingers crossed that I didn't mess that up :)

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:25:04 EST
Subject: Re: Animatronic Mouth

Finally....a question for me!!!! Thanks, Scream, I'll reply to him personally,
and copy it to this list later....
Scott McDonnell

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:57:56 -0800
Subject: Latex Puppets and eyelids

Hi gang..

This is my first post here. My company makes latex puppets that are often
built into animatronic characters for theme parks and stage shows.

I'm also a television/video puppeteer and have worked with and built a few
animatronic puppets. I'm not real technical so that's why I'm hanging out
here to learn from you who are. My experience is mostly performance and I
build what I need and usually experiment until it's right.

My biggest problem is to get a full range of movement on eyelids in a
method that is quiet on set. Since I do live voices the servo noise is
always a problem with the mics. I like cable control best and I've done
okay by dropping the cable down the puppet and over to an arm
rod....controlled by my other hand (not in the puppet).

My goal would be to see a nice easy to use movement with the controller
inside the head of the puppet so you could just pull the middle finger to
close the eyes and release to open them.

We have built a few and tested but the leverage needed to overcome the
resistance in the cables is more than I want.

Steve Axtell / Axtell Expressions, Inc!
***************************************
Web Site - http://www.axtell.com
The Learning Center - http://www.axtell.com/learn.html
What's New - http://www.axtell.com/new.html

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:29:52 -0800
Subject: Lines to Rep Wanted

Hi everyone,
If you manufacture things for sale, let me know, I am looking for lines
to rep.
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: "Bruce A. Bergman" <bbergman@doctord.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:15:20 -0800
Subject: Barney-Bot dissected ;-)

The FAMOUS, FIRST-EVER (you guessed it) Barney-Bot dissection report!

:-)

Many of you were members of the now-defunct BARNEY-BOT-L mailing list, so
you'll likely be quite interested in this message. For those of you who
weren't part of the BARNEY-BOT-L list, there was another mailing list
devoted to discussions about the Microsoft ActiMates Barney toy. Prior to
the Christmas rush, there was considerable interest in the toy and what it
could do. Since that mailing list and this one overlapped in topics and
content (after this one was started), I discontinued the BARNEY-BOT-L list
and folded it into this list. All future discussions which would have
ended up in the old list should be presented here.

What is the Barney-Bot?

It's an animated little "robot", akin to the Teddy Ruxspin of the 1980's,
but quite a bit more intriguing and exciting, for a number of reasons:

1) It has its own vocabulary and speech synthesis
2) It can interact with the child on its own, without other components
3) It can interact with the TV/Video if you have the video transmitter
4) It can BI-directionally interact with computer software
5) Both the TV/Video and computer transmitters quadruple the vocabulary
6) It has a proprietary Microsoft API for developing software interfaces
7) It's all RF based (i.e., no wires) and the batteries last a long time

And more, of course. It opens up a *WORLD* of questions/possibilities
about off-the-shelf animatronics (COTS animatronics) and robotics... I'm
sure we'll see more of these robots showing up in products in the years to
come. The guts of this thing could be used as the basis of hundreds of
animated toys, if toy manufacturers see the light. And Microsoft invested
more than 35 MILLION in the development and production of this guy, so they
are committed. I fully expect this message (and future investigation) to
generate intriguing traffic on this list, so if you have any interest in
this concept at all, please read on -- this is a good backgrounder.

Anyhow, I promised a report on the internals of the Barney-Bot, and here it
is.

First, I want to make a CYA statement. ;-) I am NOT reverse-engineering
this toy. I am presenting this information in the hopes that it will spur
interest in other developers about this product. The information you read
here is to be considered unverified and not to be used for any commerical
purposes (i.e., don't use this information to build a competing product).
There are Microsoft people on this list, and I am purposely NOT excluding
them because I believe that they will act responsibly and not litigously.
They have more to gain by the sharing of this information (especially in an
"expert" forum like this) than in the repression. By understanding the
characteristics and workings of this beast, developers can conceivably come
up with add-ons, enhancements, new software, etc. I encourage others to
share their findings with the list.

** Gaining Access **

Remove the battery compartment cover plate and you'll find four strange
screws with triangular-slot heads on them (I've seen some strange screws
before, but none like these...) Remove all four somehow (I used a
flat-head jewelers screwdriver with great care) and you now have access to
the internals. Replace the battery compartment cover plate and set the
battery pack aside. No need to unplug the battery pack yet.

Removing the housing from the skin is a little tricky, so be careful you
don't snap his arms. The arms are thin plastic sticks, something akin to
tounge depressors. Pull gently. The head receiving socket will stay
inside the skin, so don't try and pull it out. The body should come out
freely when you have the skin loose enough of obstructions. The wires are
sewen into the skin, but don't pull too hard on them.

Connected to the body, when it comes out, you'll find 12 wires (6 twisted
pairs) that you can unplug from the jumpers along the left side of the
housing. After unplugging those and cutting two zip-ties, you can set
aside the skin and move on to the body of the unit. The jumpers fit only
one way, so don't worry about orientation when reassembling.

** What's Inside? **

The inside body housing is black plastic, roughly 5" wide by 7.5" tall by
3" deep. It's shaped like a glass milk-jug of the early 1900's (if that
helps any!).

NOTE: LIMITED PICTURES ARE AVAILABLE AT:
http://home.san.rr.com/fatcity/barney.htm

The body has two halves, bolted together with 11 phillips head machine
screws, easily removed. Three of them are on the head support, so be
gentle with it when removing those (and don't loose the servo grips).

The battery compartment takes 6 1.5V AA cells, providing 9V power at 1A max.

The speaker for Barney is mid-lower-front. I wish this thing had a volume
control.

Interesting question: the 12 wires for sensors are divided into 5 pairs
(one pair for each hand and foot, and another pair for the eye sensors) and
a single, isolated pair. The single pair is plugged into a separate
jumper, and the wires head up into the skin near the eyes, BUT they don't
appear to be a part of the eye sensors. I haven't checked this out yet,
but I'm curious to figure out where this one set of wires goes, and what
it's used for. Hmmmm?

The two arms are mounted at 75* (* = degrees symbol) off the body, and
rotate thru 40* of motion (30* to 75*) if set to full motion. The head has
about 135* of motion, strictly horizontal rotation. It stops at 75* on
both sides of the body if viewed from the front. All three movable parts
are controlled by servos and are stoppered by springs (interesting). Each
of the arm servos are mounted at 75* from the centerline of the body. The
head servo is mounted 90* from the body. All are moved by two interlocking
gears. The servos are unmarked, but possibly something inside them could
give away the manufacturer (I haven't looked yet). They don't appear to be
standard R/C servos, however. Pretty noisy servos, as servos go.

The motherboard is 3.5" by 4.5" and appears to be two-layer. It's 100%
surface mount component on the bottom, and normal leaded components on the
top.

The main processor is a Microchip PIC 16CR65-10/P018, 40pin DIP. It
appears to be running at 10 MHz (the -10 and the fact that there's a 10 MHz
crystal on the board). There is another chip (maybe something power
related) in DIP format on the top. BOTH are marked "MSFT 1996".
Interesting, eh? The bottom has another custom MSFT chip in 32pin SOIC
format, presumably the ROM for the beast. There are also two 16pin SOIC
74HC164's on the bottom. The bottom of the board has a notation of
"Topsearch 1996"... Anyone heard of this company? There are test-points
all over the board. And by the way, this is a very nicely laid out board
-- the EE's at Microsoft apparently know what they're doing. ;-)

Two other crystals are also of note. One is a 49.860 MHz can, which is the
receive frequency. I put a scanner near the TV/Video transmitter and sure
enough, there's a nice 4 Hz signal on that freq with a lot of modulated
noise. The other crystal is a 49.405 MHz can, which is the transmit
frequency. When Barney is on, that freq is nicely quiet, and I didn't hear
anything like the signals on the receive frequency. It's quite possible
that Barney won't transmit until he's told that it's okay to transmit. A
carrier WAS present, however. I'd have to buy the software component to
test this theory out.

If any of you have scanners AND the software package, dial up 49.405 and
start up Barney. Listen for signals from him. THEN start the interactive
software and see if you don't get some modulation after that. I'd bet you
do...

Some very interesting waveforms can be found on TP6, near the RXDATA label.
I captured some of the waveform traffic while Barney was talking, but
haven't had a chance to interpret it yet. If people are sufficiently
interested, I can post the recordings. Most of the other test-points were
consistent TTL levels.

That's it for my first cut! Hopefully this will stir up some discussion!

:-)

thanks,

bruce

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 019
==================================================================================
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Wed, 21 Jan 1998 Volume 1998, Number 20

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:59:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Latex Puppets and eyelids

>My biggest problem is to get a full range of movement on eyelids in a
>method that is quiet on set.

Steve, it seems we keep meeting each other on various lists. Glad to see
you here. I have reciently been ask to quote some puppets that will feature
some animatronics, and I am trying to think how to do eyelids in the
extremely small space I have. Basically, picture Kermet the Frog with eyes 3
times larger. It may be a major challenge just to get side-to-side movement.
In this case the purpose of the animatronics is that it will be an imporant
representation that this "puppet" has come to life on its own, apart from
the puppeteer. The puppets still are in need of some additional expression,
beyond moving eyes. I am thinking that if I just have the eyelids move a
bit, when the character looks down when they are sad or contemplative that I
might accomplish that. In other words, I don't need eye lids that totally
close, just maybe 1/3 of a closing would be ample for the expression of
emotion. I don't think that blinking is an important emotive movement (you
like that phrase!... I just made that up "emotive movement"...I like it)
Well, 1/3 of a close is certainly more doable than a full blink with eyes
that are almost 1/2 exposed.

And for those of you that don't know Steve's work, do take a visit to his
web page and you will see wonderful examples of charactures done with his
puppets. Most have personalities that you understand in one glance, and that
is often an important tool to use in making your creation a believable
living thing. Also note his use of color on faces is not usually stuck wiht
colors the creature would have naturally, but he does it so well, you can't
imagine the character without those colors and shades on their face. He also
has some pages showing the construction process of one of his characters.
http://www.axtell.com
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR DevilinGR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:21:33 EST
Subject: Latex Puppets and eyelids

Sorry for being so quiet lately guys, but 1.) I am trying to put together a
FAQ of sorts for this list...mostly in the mechanical area... 2.) The dayjob
is killing me! LOL
Anyways....

Steve,
I had this elaborate post going in reply to your question about the eyelids
and then I realized that you did NOT want to use servos, and wanted a control
in the head at your fingers. I have a design for you, but my computer graphics
skills are terribly lacking. I will work it out on paper and scan it in for
you. Just so I don't look stupid, do you have a picture of the puppet you plan
to use it in? I might piece something together real quick...the idea I have
can use sprues from model kits, and pingpong balls for the lids (resin would
be a better final product, but at least it would get the idea accross.) My
concern is that there may be an unusual challenge to your puppet.

Joe,
Does your puppet need the eyelids to follow the eye like in a frog? At the
end of this message I am going to give you a link to my friends home page that
did something similiar to what you describe. He shows the mechanism he built,
up close...one of the most beautiful eye mechanisms I have seen. What I was
going to suggest is a simple post coming up from the bottom to rotate the eye
side to side. Then the eyelids themselves would have a slot in them about
halfway through it. This would allow it to slide "under" the eyeball partially
when opened. The full rotation of a servo should provide enough range to
rotate the eyelid up and over the front of the eye. If you wanted a bottom
lid, you could do the same thing...a slot in it to slide under the eyeball. I
don't know if this helps, but tell me if I sound like I am envisioning what
you are trying to do properly...
anyway, here's that site I promised...
http://www.backinsf.com/j1432/arvid.html
you'll have to fumble around in there a bit to get the good stuff..but you'll
find it...beautiful stuff. I very partially helped him with it, so let me know
if it doesn't make sense to you how it works. It should be pretty self-
explanitory.
Thanks all, Keep the posts going... Scott McDonnell

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 020
==================================================================================

ANIMATRONICS-L at FatCity.com
Archives - ( page 4 )

From ANIMATRONICS-L Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:55:01 local from fatcity
X-Digest: Yes
From: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com (Animatronics Mailing List)

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:39:54 EST
Subject: 12 channel rc system anywhere ???

Hey everybody ! . . . a question from a friend of mine !

Does Anybody know of an inexpensive 12 or 16 ( or more :) channel RC system
out there ??

I already know about the KeyKoder system from Vantec etc.
( an add-on module for standard 6channel-rc-transmitter that adds 12-on/off-
buttons that sends its signal "piggybacked" over the 6th pulse signal )
Vantec
460 Casa Real Plc.
Nipomo, CA
93444 USA
(805)-929-5055
for anybody who's curious ( worth getting the catalog if you're into RC !)

the problem IS . . that's too big , aaand too expensive !

He's Willing to just get a set of modules and wire together the control box
himself etc. .. it would just be nice if it was around $200 or so (hey.. stop
laughing!) (if it's on/off signals)
( $600 would be good there was something that could do servo control )

I've been looking around but really couldn't find anything . We've mostly
been looking at kits ( looking for something along the lines of garage door
openers etc. ) ( Jameco 800-831-4242 was a good try ) . . that maybe could be
grouped to "add up to" 12 or more channels .

Any Leads would be Great !
(even a "You're Crazy" post or 2 is ok . . . as long as it's informational :)

Chris HIllman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
c40179@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:38:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Latex Puppets and eyelids

The eye lid mechanics can be seen at http://www.axtell.com/eyes.html

The puppet we are installing them in is a pig puppet at
http://www.axtell.com/farm.html
Ax

Steve Axtell / Axtell Expressions, Inc!
******************************************
Web Site - http://www.axtell.com
The Learning Center - http://www.axtell.com/learn.html
Auction - http://www.axtell.com/auction.html

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:10:22 +0000
Subject: Re: 12 channel rc system anywhere ???

At 12:52 AM 1/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey everybody ! . . . a question from a friend of mine !
>
>Does Anybody know of an inexpensive 12 or 16 ( or more :) channel RC system
>out there ??

Shouldn't be too hard to build one, assuming you just want on/off. Pull the
wires from the transmitter going to the pot controlling the channel. Set up
a series of precision resistors so that you get different total values,
depending on the switch positions. For 6 switches there are 64 possible
combinations.I think an 'R/2R ladder' would do for this. The transmitter
will then give a different pulse width for each possible combination.

On the receiver end, a simple PIC microprocessor can easily decode the
signal into your 6 on/offs.

The transmitter module would cost just the price of the switches and
resistors (a few dollars or so, depending on how fancy you want your
switches), while the receiver would be $10 or so, depending on what you want
the switches to do, i.e. what kind of drivers you want.

Of course, you still have to build it :-). If you want 100 of them, I'd be
happy to do it.

If you want only one, I still might be interested in doing it just to help
out. Email me if interested.

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:44:23 EST
Subject: Re: Barney-Bot dissected ;-)

YESS!!! Finally!!!!
That's about how I had envisioned the mechanisms. Not alot going on there as
far as mechanics go, but it is interesting that they use a custom PIC
controller...hmm..I wonder how many servos it "could" drive...I'm going to
have to eventually buy one just to find this stuff out. I was thinking how
wierd it was that it's eyes and mouth didn't move and then I saw an episode
and realized that the eyes and mouth of the costume don't move either...again,
the hardware isn't impressive, but the electronics look interesting. I want to
find out just WHAT it can do. Hey, why not put a volume control in it? When I
get toys that make sounds, I usually cut the wires and splice in a switch so
it doesn't get annoying when I'm testing it.
In my area, either Actimates Barney is not being promoted good enough or
people are disinterested in it because of the price. The stores are always
stocked full of them. Computer City has it here for $79 the last I
checked...PC pack for $49. I look forward to what you discover about the
little creature. but if 3 servos are about all it can control and the
vocabulary is locked to a particular voice..$100 is a steep price to pay for
the controller. I'm sure a wireless system could be developed for less than
$150 (average price of an Actimates and PC Pack) Of course, they could get
away with that since just a R/C two channel radio can cost you that much! And
the Barney interface IS two way....
Thanks for sharing the info..talk to you soon! Scott McDonnell

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:20:30 -0800
Subject: For the Good of Others

Have any of you built animatronic devices for folks who cannot move? I
have a friend Marshal who has Lou Gerig's Disease and can't move ANYTHING
except for his eyelid.

A year ago I got him set up with a computer voice synthesizer so he can
talk to his wife vocally. His wife told me how he can now out to her from
the other room just to tell her "I love you". My latest effor with him is
to get him email so he can talk freely with others over the net. (Largely
his friends have stopped coming over because of the pain of the situation.)

Anyway his wife works all day and night, taking him on van trips with big
wheel chair complete with voice computer and oxygen, changing his urine
bag, oxygen, feeding tubes and reading to him and tells me the thing she
misses most is feeling his arms around her - holding her.

Well, I can only imagine his own nightmare of not being able to raise a
finger or give back the many hugs she gives him. He writes her long love
letters every morning praising her for all her help.

I woke up this morning and laid in bed with my arms around my wife thinking
about this situation.... and then remembered a back massage unit I'd seen
in an upscale store over the holidays. It's got a remote control!

Do you see the possibility? After a long days work, Marshal could give
Eleanor a back rub. Not just turn on the switch but actually move between
modes (under his control) Neck - light, medium, heavy - Shoulders - light,
medium, heavy - Lower Back - light medium, heavy. It would be an beautiful
way of "touching her"....in a high tech kind of way.

Somehow it would be possible to create an interface between his typical
controller (I can find out what it is, I think it's an eyelid blink sensor)
and the remote controller.

My question is, has anyone tried something like this and could you help me
figure out what to do next?
Thanks!

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:08:14 -0500
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

>Have any of you built animatronic devices for folks who cannot move? I
>have a friend Marshal who has Lou Gerig's Disease and can't move ANYTHING
>except for his eyelid.
>
>A year ago I got him set up with a computer voice synthesizer so he can
>talk to his wife vocally.

Steve, of course I did a little investigation on Tawana's behalf (a
quadrapelegic) There are interfaces in some of the special chairs that can
be tapped into. But these units are not cheap and the only output I could
find was simply an on-off control. I understand this is commonly connected
to some sort of menu system, so that the person can, lets say, switch to the
TV control menu where they can change channels. But the capabilities seemed
quite limited.
However, I have seen things on TV shows that described methods of
accessing a computer using only the eyes. If this is truely a viable option,
then using a computer can open up many possiblities. Older fashoned voice
recognition software may also be useful because it doesn't require that you
speak the word, just make some sound consistantly. So if he can have a
vocabulary of a few different grunts, then that is a viable input medium.
Reciently I saw a new article describing a method for a computer to "read
your mind" in the sense of reading a yes or no response. But I think it was
quite experimental and probably not affordable. But maybe someday.
Animatronics itself is sometimes done under direct control of a computer.
And of course, the internet itself is a vast world accessed only by
computer. I think a computer interface, would be the method of choice
because of its flexability.
The critical issues are what kinds of input and control the person might
be able to do. This is the main limiting factor. This is where you start and
then try to go from there.
The next choice is what useful task can be accomplished. You mentioned
using a remote controled massager so that he can give his wife a massage -
would this truely be a better massage than what the wife can do on her own?
While is it is possible that this might be viewed by the wife as a sort of
"electronic hug" from her spouse... I think it is important that the person
using the controls realize that they are performing a truely useful service.
If you make a remote control vacuum cleaner (perhaps with video onboard),
perhaps he can do this task.
But to the animatronics directly... it may be a way to make other laugh
and enjoy themselves if he can produce his own puppet shows. If he really is
that limited, he might need to spend days working on programming a short
skit, and then he can control the playback live. This way he can pause the
playback for laughter if needed.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Otto Segura <os@fcs-net.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:48:14 -0500
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

Steve I have not worked wit animatronics, but I had don alot of work on
bioelectronics.
Righ now there are many way to interface persons with physical handycaps to
control systems.
the developement of this type systems is rather personal. In orther to develop
some control system you need to know what are the abilities that the person has,
ie: neck movement, finger movement, eye movement, etc. You also have to define
thefuntions that you would like to enable, in this point you have to be a bit
realistic, a masage sure will be a great thing but it is a very complex
funtion. I think that the most important funtion are those that enhance the
independence of the patient, again in this field there are alot of systems ie:
control, motion, comunications etc.
They are not that dificult to to implement but they have to be done in very
small blocks that are customized to each person.

I hope this helps

Otto.

Joe Dunfee wrote:
> >Have any of you built animatronic devices for folks who cannot move? I
> >have a friend Marshal who has Lou Gerig's Disease and can't move ANYTHING
> >except for his eyelid.
> >
> >A year ago I got him set up with a computer voice synthesizer so he can
> >talk to his wife vocally.

==================================================================================

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:25:17 EST
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

>It's got a remote control! . . . Do you see the possibility?

well Actually I'm wondering about . . .
>A year ago I got him set up with a computer voice synthesizer so he can talk
to his wife vocally.

was that "computer" based ? or was it more of a stand-alone system ??

instead of even thinking about tapping into a products remote control . . my
appraoch might be to set up a Standard type of interface where you could just
plug whatever appliance you Wanted into it .

I was typing "Somebody" about this product a while back (maybe This group) but
there's a product at :"www.mpja.com" that you can plug into a computers
parallel-port that'll let you control 8 relays .
( it's a kit for about $59? . . #6074-kt . . at
http://www.mpja.com/product/kits/relays.html )

if you got That working . . then he could basically run Anything he wanted
around the house etc. ( it doesn't have the same closness of a custom-rig
massager etc. . . . but it Would be versatile in that anything they have that
turns on&off could be plugged into it .)

The relay kit says it Already has software for DOS & Windows etc. and even
though I havn't really tried it yet I've gathered that it doesn't really take
that much "programming-wise" to get the relays to "click"
(in Q-Basic I think the only command you need to write is "OUT" and the serial
number of the pin on the parallel-port)

I was thinking that if you're Already setting things up for typing at All ,
you could probably put together a pretty easy program that he could run relays
etc.
(then just connect the relay board to eight 115volt outlets)

Then he could run his own stereo / lights / morning coffee / tv / . . well .
.anything .
THEN . . anytime somebody wanted to invest some time they could ALSO tap other
things into the relays ( like the "specific" functions of a back massager etc.
:)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics g .. *cough* ..uy ( ugh .. getting over the flu :(
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

Idea #2 . . . on top of all that I was wondering if he had Any eye movement
itself ?? . . I'd assume there'd be a product out there that would let you
control things by Looking at something "Then" blinking . . . I thought That's
how they usually set it up so people could type when they didn't have other
movements available .
If there was something like That out there that let you control a computer ..
then you might be able to just about buy anything you Wanted off the shelf
when it came to computer / relay / electrical control etc.
( . . . aaaand email , aaand audio synthesizer etc. etc. )

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:29:10 -0800
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

At 02:15 PM 1/25/98 -0800, Joe Dunfee wrote:
> The critical issues are what kinds of input and control the person might
>be able to do. This is the main limiting factor. This is where you start and
>then try to go from there.

I looked at Marshal's input device that he uses to type with and it's
better than I thought. It's a strap with a sensor on it that activates
when he flexes either the eyebrow muscle or the wrist/thumb muscle. I
guess any muscle that has movement remaining.

> The next choice is what useful task can be accomplished. You mentioned
>using a remote controled massager so that he can give his wife a massage -
>would this truely be a better massage than what the wife can do on her own?

Efficiency is not the point. She misses his "hug" and he can't lift a
finger to give back to her. I spoke to Marshal yesterday about this crazy
idea and he started to cry (which he can still do). He's very excited
about it and we are keeping it a secret from his wife. It's going to be a
meaningful way for him to "touch" her. Sure she could use the remote and
make the switches activate faster and I should preserve that feature in
case she needs it, but this is a romantic interface. I might point out
that this is not a vibrator but a real massager with fingers that grip the
neck, shoulders and back. It will be quite a tactile experience and if he
controls the position and intensity, a very real connection.

Anyway if this is getting off topic I would be happy to move this to the
private email.

> But to the animatronics directly... it may be a way to make other laugh
>and enjoy themselves if he can produce his own puppet shows. If he really is
>that limited, he might need to spend days working on programming a short
>skit, and then he can control the playback live. This way he can pause the
>playback for laughter if needed.
>Joe Dunfee
>Miami, Florida USA

thanks for the suggestion Joe but he has no interest in puppetry at this
point. A robot arm perhaps would be a great toy for him to experiment with.

I know this is a side issue but does involve many of the interfaces,
electronics and end results we often attempt to achieve with animatronics.

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:43:43 -0800
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

At 03:00 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Steve I have not worked wit animatronics, but I had don alot of work on
>bioelectronics.
>Righ now there are many way to interface persons with physical handycaps to
>control systems.
>the developement of this type systems is rather personal. In orther to
develop
>some control system you need to know what are the abilities that the
person has,
>ie: neck movement, finger movement, eye movement, etc.

I really appreciate your responses! He has Eyebrows and right thumb
movement only.

You also have to define
>thefuntions that you would like to enable, in this point you have to be a bit
>realistic, a masage sure will be a great thing but it is a very complex
>funtion.

Sorry for the lack of clarification. The massager is a large board with
finger like projections for the neck, shoulder and back. They are 3
stations and each station has an intensity control. Low medium and high.
Anyway it's switching between them that is the only challenge. The unit
comes with a remote controller. I need to get more specs obviously.

I think that the most important funtion are those that enhance the
>independence of the patient, again in this field there are alot of systems
ie:
>control, motion, comunications etc.

We've given him back a voice and he can communicate very well now albiet
slowly. While I realize there are more practical issues that he must deal
with, this is an effort of putting some "pleasure" back into his (and her)
life. I know it's kind of a weird project but I know them both well and
it's on target for where they are. They may only have a year together and
they've expressed to me their biggest sorrow is that he cannot hold his
wife any longer. It provides a direct expression of love, security,
affection. Some need it more than others but it's a reality of the human
condition.

Thanks again for your comments.

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:50:09 -0800
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

At 12:30 AM 1/26/98 -0800, C40179 wrote:
>
>>It's got a remote control! . . . Do you see the possibility?
>
>well Actually I'm wondering about . . .
>>A year ago I got him set up with a computer voice synthesizer so he can talk
>to his wife vocally.
>
>was that "computer" based ? or was it more of a stand-alone system ??

It was originally a footswitch input device (morse code) thru software on a
286 dos machine to Soundblaster text to speech monologue! But now they've
upgraded to a real DynaVox stand alone portable system that he can type
into with eyebrow twiches.
>
>instead of even thinking about tapping into a products remote control . . my
>appraoch might be to set up a Standard type of interface where you could just
>plug whatever appliance you Wanted into it .

Good thinking. He does have the eyebrow muscle sensor input device that he
can type with. I'll call the company and ask them about a standardized
output interface.

Ax
Steve Axtell / Axtell Expressions, Inc!
***************************************
Web Site - http://www.axtell.com
The Learning Center - http://www.axtell.com/learn.html
Auction - http://www.axtell.com/auction.html

==================================================================================

From: Otto <os@fcs-net.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:18:09 -0500
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

Steve I do not if you have considered this idea: regarling the hug, I think it
will be posible for him to give his wife a hug with the use of electromechanical
or neumatict assisted arms braces, it will be a bit like a robot arm but his arms
will be doing the hugging, it will not be too dificult to implement.

Otto

Steve Axtell wrote:

> At 03:00 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Steve I have not worked wit animatronics, but I had don alot of work on
> >bioelectronics.
> >Righ now there are many way to interface persons with physical handycaps to
> >control systems.
> >the developement of this type systems is rather personal. In orther to
> develop
> >some control system you need to know what are the abilities that the
> person has,
> >ie: neck movement, finger movement, eye movement, etc.
>
> I really appreciate your responses! He has Eyebrows and right thumb
> movement only.
>
> You also have to define
> >thefuntions that you would like to enable, in this point you have to be a bit
> >realistic, a masage sure will be a great thing but it is a very complex
> >funtion.
>
> Sorry for the lack of clarification. The massager is a large board with
> finger like projections for the neck, shoulder and back. They are 3
> stations and each station has an intensity control. Low medium and high.
> Anyway it's switching between them that is the only challenge. The unit
> comes with a remote controller. I need to get more specs obviously.
>
> I think that the most important funtion are those that enhance the
> >independence of the patient, again in this field there are alot of systems
> ie:
> >control, motion, comunications etc.
>
> We've given him back a voice and he can communicate very well now albiet
> slowly. While I realize there are more practical issues that he must deal
> with, this is an effort of putting some "pleasure" back into his (and her)
> life. I know it's kind of a weird project but I know them both well and
> it's on target for where they are. They may only have a year together and
> they've expressed to me their biggest sorrow is that he cannot hold his
> wife any longer. It provides a direct expression of love, security,
> affection. Some need it more than others but it's a reality of the human
> condition.
>
> Thanks again for your comments.
>
> Ax
>
> Steve Axtell / Axtell Expressions, Inc!
> ***************************************
> Web Site - http://www.axtell.com
> The Learning Center - http://www.axtell.com/learn.html
> Auction - http://www.axtell.com/auction.html
> --
> Author: Steve Axtell
> INET: steve@axtell.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5030 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet Access
> -------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:00:21 EST
Subject: Re: For the Good of Others

In a message dated 98-01-26 10:46:49 EST, you write:

<< Steve I do not if you have considered this idea: regarling the hug, I think
it
will be posible for him to give his wife a hug with the use of
electromechanical
or neumatict assisted arms braces, it will be a bit like a robot arm but his
arms
will be doing the hugging, it will not be too dificult to implement.

Otto
>>
OF COURSE!!!!! An exoskeleton!!! Great idea! And much more directed to
animatronics. Steve, I would love to help you with this project in any way I
can, even with the massager...this is such a sad story, and it hurts to think
of how overwhelming that it must feel not to be able to hold someone you love.
We take this for granted everyday of our lives...it's sobering to stop and
realize how little our problems are compared to this. I have a little
background in bioelectronics (as I mentioned in private email), and good
enough experience with mechanics that I can try to be of help to you. Count me
in.
Does this massager "move" in anyway or are we talking about her positioning it
and him controlling the pulse? What I am thinking of are those massagers that
you lay on and they have arms that come up around the neck...Email me, Steve
and let me know if I can help. Thanks, Scott

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:15:32 -0700
Subject: Servos

Hi Everyone,

I have just been Lurking for a while. Heads down with an interesting
animatronics project for the Chicago Halloween Show. My company is
EFFECTive ENGINEERING and we make some animatronic control products
primarily for driving RC servos.

Anyway, I have two things to ask:

1. Is anyone familiar with the "BUG" linear actuator? I hear it is a
small RC type linear actuator used in some robots, but I can't seem to find
a lead on it.

2. I am putting the finishing touches on a new animatronic control
product. It will be available March 15 (coincident with the Halloween
Show). It will have both RC servo outputs as well as digital outputs to
run pneumatic valves, lights, etc. Here's my question: Is it worth the
added expense of having high current drivers on the board for say, 24 volt
dc valves, or should I just leave them as low current outputs and just have
people use whatever IO module they want for their application? In one
breath I'd like to keep the system simple and allow the user to hook their
valve right to the board. In the next breath I admit that one board can't
be all things to all people (and valves). Some people will want to drive
120VAC loads at high currents, others will only be turning on a LED. At
$10 or $20 per channel, they can get (or I can stock) solid state relays
and module boards to mount them in. Further, by keeping it modular,
damage to a valve driver does not trash the controller. Anyway, just
curious if anyone has an opinion.

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Mark Lipsky

--------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:32:18 -0500
Subject: Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 025

>2. I am putting the finishing touches on a new animatronic control
>product. It will be available March 15 (coincident with the Halloween
>Show). It will have both RC servo outputs as well as digital outputs to
>run pneumatic valves, lights, etc. Here's my question: Is it worth the
>added expense of having high current drivers on the board for say, 24 volt
>dc valves, or should I just leave them as low current outputs and just have
>people use whatever IO module they want for their application?

>Author: Mark Lipsky

Definitely the modular approach. But it must be easy to add these modules,
and apparent to a minimally electronics skilled person. Also a means of
mounting and plugging everything in should be available.
Also have a power supply available that will run the lower-end user's system.

How is this system going to be programmed or "scripted"?

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:17:44 EST
Subject: Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 025

>Is anyone familiar with the "BUG" linear actuator?

Nope . . ( I'm kinda surprised too . . sounds really interesting !)
Does "bug" Stand for something ?
The only real rc-type linear actuators I've seen have been the Big ExPenSivE
Ones over at CK .
(sorry I don't have the url . . my AOL-program-file-cabinet just self-
destructed and took Aaaaaaaaaall my LINKS With it !! . . as in . . . like . .
all 1000 or so . . Aaaand my email . .Aaaand my html for the site ! .. ugh ..
i'm bummed :)

> It will have both RC servo outputs as well as digital outputs to
>run pneumatic valves, lights, etc. Here's my question: Is it worth the
>added expense of having high current drivers on the board for say, 24 volt
>dc valves, or should I just leave them as low current outputs and just have
>people use whatever IO module they want for their application?

> they can get (or I can stock) solid state relays and module boards to mount
them in.

>>Definitely the modular approach. But it must be easy to add these modules,
and apparent to a minimally electronics skilled person.

Put in another vote for the "go modular" choice too .
on One hand "I'D" probably end up needing the relays (not That great at
electronics) but I'd hate to see everybody Else be "forced" to pay for them
too :(
(ssr's Can be expensive)
I Guess I'd assume that the best thing would be to sell'em modular "And" pre-
assembled . . maybe at a little better price . . . just to try to Encourage
people to get the whole system . . . Or for people who just don't want to
bother worrying about it , and have bigger budgets :)

Thinking about it . . . if you found a cheap source for the Relays . . it
would be nice if you ended up making a bunch of sales on Those to people who
never even Bought the Board :)
( keeping my fingers crossed :)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
c40179@aol.com

( goin back to work now cutting and pasting 1000 links out of the jumbled mess
of raw data from my OLD destroyed AOL-file-cabinet-file :(
( all i did was hit the "compact" button . . . really :(

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:40:34 -0800
Subject: EFFECTive ENGINEERING

It's great to see Mark Lipsky from EFFECTive Engineering on line as well.
If any of you don't already know.....His page is at
http://www.vigra.com/effective/index.html

He's been a life saver in many of my projects! Welcome Mark dude!

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:40:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Puppets and eyelids

At 12:21 AM 1/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>My biggest problem is to get a full range of movement on eyelids in a
>>method that is quiet on set.
>I am thinking that if I just have the eyelids move a
>bit, when the character looks down when they are sad or contemplative that I
>might accomplish that. In other words, I don't need eye lids that totally
>close, just maybe 1/3 of a closing would be ample for the expression of
>emotion. I don't think that blinking is an important emotive movement (you
>like that phrase!... I just made that up "emotive movement"...I like it)
>Well, 1/3 of a close is certainly more doable than a full blink with eyes
>that are almost 1/2 exposed.

Eye agree with you (groan) but in my case I needed the eyes to close all
the way to simulate prayer and sleeping on the video puppet Prayer Bear
http://www.axtell.com/prayerb.html Partially closing eyelids are best with
cables controlled by fingers and the full range of full closing eyes seem
to be best served by longer push/pull or other cables using a second
puppeteer or by servos.

Servos make noise. However, I've been told to REPACK the servos with
vasolene to quiet them down. Sounds like a good idea but I haven't tried
it.

Rick Lazarini suggested I put the servos in a quiet box away from the
puppet and cable from them to the puppet. Another good idea.

> And for those of you that don't know Steve's work, do take a visit to his
>web page and you will see wonderful examples of charactures done with his
>puppets. Most have personalities that you understand in one glance, and that
>is often an important tool to use in making your creation a believable
>living thing. Also note his use of color on faces is not usually stuck wiht
>colors the creature would have naturally, but he does it so well, you can't
>imagine the character without those colors and shades on their face. He also
>has some pages showing the construction process of one of his characters.
>http://www.axtell.com
>Joe Dunfee
>Miami, Florida USA

Thanks a bunch Joe. Your always a pal.

Ax

Steve Axtell / Axtell Expressions, Inc!
***************************************
Web Site - http://www.axtell.com
The Learning Center - http://www.axtell.com/learn.html
Auction - http://www.axtell.com/auction.html

==================================================================================
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 030

ANIMATRONICS-L at FatCity.com
Archives - ( page 5 )

From ANIMATRONICS-L Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:55:00 local from fatcity
X-Digest: Yes
ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com (Animatronics Mailing List)

From: Mark Lipsky mlipsky@effecteng.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 05:24:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Servos (new animatronic controller)

>>2. I am putting the finishing touches on a new animatronic control
>>product....Here's my question: Is it worth the added expense of having
>> high current drivers on the board... or should I just leave them as low
>>current outputs and just have people use whatever IO module they want
>for their application?
>
> From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:32:18 -0500
> Subject: Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 025
>
> Definitely the modular approach. But it must be easy to add these modules,
>and apparent to a minimally electronics skilled person. Also a means of
>mounting and plugging everything in should be available.
> Also have a power supply available that will run the lower-end user's
>system.
>
> How is this system going to be programmed or "scripted"?
- - - -
>Chris Hillman
>Animatronics guy
>http://members.aol.com/robotweb
>c40179@aol.com

>Put in another vote for the "go modular" choice too .
>on One hand "I'D" probably end up needing the relays (not That great at
>electronics) but I'd hate to see everybody Else be "forced" to pay for them
>too :(
>(ssr's Can be expensive)
>I Guess I'd assume that the best thing would be to sell'em modular "And" pre-
>assembled . . maybe at a little better price . . . just to try to Encourage
>people to get the whole system . . . Or for people who just don't want to
>bother worrying about it , and have bigger budgets :)
>
>Thinking about it . . . if you found a cheap source for the Relays . . it
>would be nice if you ended up making a bunch of sales on Those to people who
>never even Bought the Board :)
>( keeping my fingers crossed :)

This reflects the feedback I am getting in general, I think people want the
flexibility. I am going to go with the modular approach. There is a very
nice array of I/O modules available out there. The smaller solid state
relays can be had for the $10 range.

In response to Joe's question, the system will be scripted initially using
a Futaba type transmitter with a cable connected to the "trainer" port.
Eventually I want to make more specialized tools available, but the Futaba
Tx is a good value and most people are used to what they feel like.

BTW, thanks for the kind words of welcome from Steve Axtell.

Mark Lipsky

-------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:09:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Servos (new animatronic controller)

>In response to Joe's question, the system will be scripted initially using
>a Futaba type transmitter with a cable connected to the "trainer" port.
>Eventually I want to make more specialized tools available, but the Futaba
>Tx is a good value and most people are used to what they feel like.

>Mark Lipsky

I think there is a significant limitation to that method because you must
do the entire performance perfect when you record it. The hardware you are
making is easily capable of handling 8 or more servos, but your scripting
method is the limiting factor. I think your scripting method is effectively
limited to 4 channels.
Perhaps you can come up with a method for multi track recording and
layering and editing the movements. That was the main reason I was attracted
to MIDI, only because of the editing and playback options available to me.
Perhaps you can create a method to convert between the Futaba Trainer port
protocall and MIDI. This may give you the best of both worlds, but I have
absolutely no idea how this would be accomplished.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:30:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Servos (animatronic controller)

> From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
>
>>In response to Joe's question, the system will be scripted initially using
>>a Futaba type transmitter with a cable connected to the "trainer" port...
>
> I think there is a significant limitation to that method because you must
>do the entire performance perfect when you record it. The hardware you are
>making is easily capable of handling 8 or more servos, but your scripting
>method is the limiting factor. I think your scripting method is effectively
>limited to 4 channels.
> Perhaps you can come up with a method for multi track recording and
>layering and editing the movements. That was the main reason I was attracted
>to MIDI, only because of the editing and playback options available to me.
>Perhaps you can create a method to convert between the Futaba Trainer port
>protocall and MIDI. This may give you the best of both worlds, but I have
>absolutely no idea how this would be accomplished.
>Joe Dunfee
>Miami, Florida USA

Indeed you are right, Joe. Most puppeteers cannot do more than 3 or 4
channels effectively. That is the limitation that sets this system costing
only a few hundred dollars apart from other systems costing thousands.

I need to get the decoder/driver finished up first. Once that is done, I
can move forward with a tool to allow channel by channel recording and
editing if there is sufficient interest. Even so, for some simple 3 or 4
channel applications, I think people will find the system useful. At the
very least, it will emulate what a good puppeteer can do.

One thing I have done for people in the past is to take an 8-channel
transmitter and move 4 of the channels to another joystick box connected by
an umbilical cord. This allows 2 puppeteers to stand next to each other
and do simultaneous puppeteering during the recording session.

I also see this controller as having uses that go beyond creatures and
puppets. As a lighting/effects controller for a haunted house where things
are not all necessarily changing at the same time, it would be possible to
utilize all 8 channels of control.

Anyway, that's my angle on it for now.

Sincerely,

Mark Lipsky

----------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:21:57 EST
Subject: Motor Questions :)

Hey everybody ! . . .

Well it's finally time to start getting supplies for my next big project and
I've been scrounging through the surplus catalogs etc.
Right now it looks like I could use some opinions on motor-strength etc.
though .

Basically the project is a female animatronic figure . . . ( aw heck,
"android" sounds cooler :) .. and was hoping to find motors for the wrists
and upper-arms etc. in a single usable package .
( to drive the twisting action etc.)

( The plan is to take a few servos, yank out the internal motors, replace them
with sets of diodes and relays etc. .. then drive larger geared-down motors
from the internal circuitry . (shouldn't be any problem there))

Right Now I'm trying to find something that would "possibly" fit in a 2-inch
cylinder , was geared down to about 30rpm or a little more , has the output
shaft in-line with the motor ( doesn't come out at a right angle etc.) and
could Hopefully be bought for $25 or less :(

I Have found a few that come close but there always seems to be One Thing that
doesn't match up .

The questions are . . .

A: Does anybody already know of any specific geared down motors that they've
had good experiences with for a project like ... well ... any kind of robotic
project I guess :)

B: Should I even be THINKING of using the "reversable" 115volt motors that I'm
coming across ?? (whatever motors I use will essentially be reversing back and
forth and back and forth probably up to 100 times a minute sometimes)

C: Does anybody know of any Generic Gearboxes that're out there that have the
input & output shafts "In-Line" (or "alomost" in line) ?? There are alot of
gearboxes out there that are either too big or have the input and output shaft
on the Same Side ! :(
( I DO know of One nifty gadget at Herbach & Rademan called a "Vernier Drive"
that's basically a shaft-extender (only about 1-inch long) that reduces the
rotation of the input shaft by 1/10th .
(stick it on the shaft of a 100rpm motor and now it's a 10rpm motor with a
slightly longer shaft) . . . the only thing I don''t like is that they're a
little tight so they're getting rid of alot of the torque that's gonna be so
precious .)

so D: does anybody know where I can get better versions .. (or other versions)
of These .. (I'm assuming "Vernier-drive" is kind of a standard device . . .
I Think I've heard the term before)

and E: Does anybobody have any suggestions on what Voltage / Amp / Torque
ratings to look for ?
( Right now I'm guessing 12-24 volts / 1-2 amps? / a few inch-lbs of torque or
better?? ) ( I've Had experience with motors in the past . . but usually the
cheaper ones OR ones that I didn't ever have any specs on . . so I don't
Reeeeeally know how to compare yet )

Any opinions / suggestions / philosophies / Tips / etc welcome .

If I can't find anything "off the shelf" that matches up well enough I guess
my Next post will be "what's a good resin to use for casting your own gears"

Chris Hillman
Animatronics "typing 1000 links by hand again" guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: janecek@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:43:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Motor Questions :)

(snip)
>Basically the project is a female animatronic figure . . . ( aw heck,
>"android" sounds cooler :) .. and was hoping to find motors for the wrists
>and upper-arms etc. in a single usable package .
>( to drive the twisting action etc.)
(snip)
>Any opinions / suggestions / philosophies / Tips / etc welcome .
>
>If I can't find anything "off the shelf" that matches up well enough I guess
>my Next post will be "what's a good resin to use for casting your own gears"
(snip)

do the movements of the wrist and upper arms have to be proportional?

i.e.: would they move all the way to and fixed end point and then back? or
have to stop at various points along the way using a feedback loop?

Could you use linear servos to drive spring-loaded cable actuated wrists?

In fact, is using a style of linear actuator that is driven by a small
servo-motor an option?

Off-the shelf, these tend to be rather pricey, but they're not that
complicated and you could build several yourself.

Plus, you could get away with a MUCH lower torque rating on the motor if
you are driving a lead screw rather than direct-driving an axis.

-Jim

==================================================================================

From: janecek+anim@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:50:22 -0600
Subject: Kerk

anyone every dealt with KERK motion products in NH?

They make a proprietary lead screw and anti-backlash compensating nut system(s)

I have some of their lead screws in a prototyping kit from BERKEY Systems
(see ad in Cinefex or what was that Robot Magazine that stopped coming...?)

anyways, I called their phone number in NH and was told I had to PAY .35 to
complete the call!!! So I hung up and looked them up on the web, but have
had no response..yet..from them.

I'm moving some 30lb things up and down over 36".

-Jim

==================================================================================

From: janecek+anim@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:51:56 -0600
Subject: Re: Motor Questions (sent twice-sorry)

I'm sending this twice because I forgot to use the email reply address that
I use for this list:

do the movements of the wrist and upper arms have to be proportional?

i.e.: would they move all the way to and fixed end point and then back? or
have to stop at various points along the way using a feedback loop?

Could you use linear servos to drive spring-loaded cable actuated wrists?

In fact, is using a style of linear actuator that is driven by a small
servo-motor an option?

Off-the shelf, these tend to be rather pricey, but they're not that
complicated and you could build several yourself.

Plus, you could get away with a MUCH lower torque rating on the motor if
you are driving a lead screw rather than direct-driving an axis.

-Jim

==================================================================================

From: Jim Ruxton cinetron@passport.ca
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:51:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Kerk

Jim Janecek wrote:
>
> anyone every dealt with KERK motion products in NH?
>
> They make a proprietary lead screw and anti-backlash compensating nut system(s)
>
I once tried to get a lead screw from them but the lead time was too
long. (sorry couldn't resist) Anyway since I needed something in a hurry
I went with Techno-Isel [(516)328-3970] . They also have an
anti-backlash nut which for my application worked fine. It was a six
foot linear motion stage. From what I remember Techno-Isel was also
cheaper but specs weren't quite as good. Good luck.

Jim Ruxton
Cinematronica

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:41:39 EST
Subject: Re: Motor Questions :)

Hey Chris,Well its finely finished the new shop is up and running when you
come down I'll show you somethings I tried with motors that may help!

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:58:41 EST
Subject: Mark Lerman are you out there?

Mark haven't seen you on the list, Did you get the SMPTE stuff I sent you?

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@Aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Oz osbornej@epix.net
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 98 16:48:40 -0500
Subject: FAQ & Archives

I am new to this listserver. Working in a related field, building a
manipulator for persons with high level paralysis to let them work at a
desk.

Is there a FAQ and/or archives available so I can get up to speed quickly?

Joseph Osborne
Arlyn Toolworks

==================================================================================

From: DevilinGR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:42:01 EST
Subject: Re: Motor Questions :)

OK, Chris, perfect timing for your post! I just recieved a surplus catalog
yesterday in the mail that has a geared down motor that "I'm" planning to use.
Hold on a sec, I'm gonna grab it! : )
OK, it is from MECI here's the specs:
No load ratings:
3vdc, 15ma, 85RPM
12vdc,26ma,325RPM
Body size: 2-5/16"(L)x5/8"(D).
MFG. Maxon P/N:41.016.016-00.00-184
MECI order no. 420-0515 $9.95 each.
http://www.meci.com/
ph# 1800-344-4465
It sounds really small, which is great for what I am doing, but perhaps too
small for your android. I plan to use it for elbow rotation and wrist
rotation.
Hey, Chris, another thought...have you ever looked at the window motors for
automobiles? MECI has those for $24.95 a pair, about 100rpm, reversible,
1.6amps no torque ratings, but I'm willing to bet they are extremely high.
This is something that would be good for the shoulder or something, since it
is not inline, but felt like adding it to this post anyway. Sayanara, Scott

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:25:29 +0000
Subject: Re: Mark Lerman are you out there?

Hi Eric,

Yeah, I'm here. Got your package, but I've gotten bogged down in some other
work-type stuff. Had to go to Florida for most of a week (on business), now
have to do a few other things before I can get to SMPTE. I'll try and get
back to this in a week or so.

Bruce mentioned that something simpler, like simple tone decoding might be
adequate for this type of thing.

I have lots of ideas for servo control, but like most of you, I just don't
have the time to pursue them all. Especially since I can justify it from an
economic sense.

Mark

At 01:10 PM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Mark haven't seen you on the list,Did you get the SMPTE stuff I sent you?
>
>Eric Princz
>Creative Design & Engineering
>Monkee1291@ Aol.com
>--
>Author:
> INET: MONKEE1291@aol.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:42:43 EST
Subject: Re: Motor Questions :)

>perfect timing for your post! I just recieved a surplus catalog
>yesterday in the mail that has a geared down motor that "I'm" planning to
use.
>it is from MECI

LOL . . . yeah I just got that catalog too . . . that's where I ordered most
of the first motors I've been experimenting with .
so far I got . . .
about four 12v-40v motors to experiment with / a 6v gearhead motor that puts
out 30rpm (perfect) but definitely wont fit in a 2" cylinder :( (designed
very offset) Aaand it wont be strong enough, but I bought the Other motors
with the hopes of attaching a new motor to the gearbox . . maybe redesigning
it a little :)
Aaaaaand . . .

>another thought...have you ever looked at the window motors for
>automobiles? MECI has those for $24.95 a pair,
>This is something that would be good for the shoulder or something, since it
is not inline

Yup got those too :) ! (Those are the same ones that get sold just about
everywhere . . All Electronics, MECI, Herbach & Rademan, and a few other
places) I was Hoping to find the motors they usually use on the robots for
"Americas First robotic competition" (look on the cover of any "Small-Parts-
Inc" catalog) but never saw anything . . then as soon as I got those window
motors I realized That "Was" them !

Right Now they come as a motor assembly with a worm-gear driving a larger
main-gear . . . but the first thing I Did was Take them Apart and what you end
up getting is a motor woth a 3inch shaft with a worm-gear attached . . . I
Think what they do at Americas-First is to take those and just use them to run
Larger Gears etc. . . . seems they power them off rechargable-drill battery
packs (convienient convienient convienient) .

I've been thinking of taking the gearbox from the 6v-motor and making moulds
of the gears and reworking them to attach to the window-motors (it has a nifty
little design in the main part of the gear-box) . . .

Does Anybody Know of a good material to Cast Gears In ???!

also at MECI ...
>3vdc, 15ma, 85RPM
>12vdc,26ma,325RPM
>Body size: 2-5/16"(L)x5/8"(D).
>perhaps too
>small for your android.

yeah but I Was drooling over that one too . . . it IS exactly what I'm
looking for (IF I attach the 10to1 vernier-drive I was talking about and take
it down to 30rpm) but it just isn't plain strong enough to run an entire arm
etc.
( I May just buy them for smaller things though . . too bad they don't have
any torque ratings :(

>This is something that would be good for the shoulder or something, since it
is not inline

and from MONKEE1291@aol.com
>Hey Chris,Well its finely finished the new shop is up and running when you
>come down I'll show you somethings I tried with motors that may help!
>Eric Princz
>Creative Design & Engineering

AHHHhhhhh .. . see Animatronics DOE'S exist in Jersey ! :)
( I was starting to lose faith )

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
( home of over 850-links to Animatronics, Robotics & Special-Effects! )
c40179@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: janecek+anim@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:12:50 -0600
Subject: Re: Motor Questions :)

perhaps a trip to Home Depot or Builders Square (or KMart or WalMart ) is
in order.

Look for a small cordless electric screwdriver. (not the drill)

Black and Decker makes them, in the VersaPak line.

they're cheap without the batteries.

Outside diameter is also less than 2" (for the screwdriver-style)

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:12:16 -0800
Subject: Android

Chris,
I do not know if you work from models or from blue prints... if you work
from prints here are the dimensions I am using in my shop to cut steel
for the skeleton.

Source: Humanscale Manual 1/2/3
Large 97.5 percentile
Average 50.0 percentile
Small 2.5 percentile

overall height 68.5", 63.3", 58.7"
top of head to bottom of chin 8.2, 8.0, 7.9
height of shoulder joint from floor 54.1, 50.0, 46.0
height of hip joint from floor 36.2, 33.3, 30.4
height of knee joint from floor 19.6, 18.0, 16.5
height of ankle joint from floor 3.5, 3.2, 3.0
center of shoulder joint to elbow 11.1, 10.4, 9.8
elbow to wrist 10.0, 9.2, 8.6
wrist to tip of middle finger 7.5, 6.9, 6.3
width of foot 3.9, 3.6, 3.3

The width of hips and width of shoulders are missing from my notes. I
will have to go back to the source for details. The steel I cut was for
the middle set of numbers... representing average U.S. female. Some of
the pneumatic cylinders I am going to try showed up yesterday.

The first steel cut was 3/4 " rebar... a little heavy for most peoples
taste, but easy for me to work. The next skeleton is going to be cut
from square steel tube... lighter and little more delicate welding
required.

Anyone else out there building?

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes herbmont@tgn.net
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:47:40 -0600
Subject: Re: Android

At 01:00 PM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Chris,
>I do not know if you work from models or from blue prints... if you work
>from prints here are the dimensions I am using in my shop to cut steel
>for the skeleton.
>
>Source: Humanscale Manual 1/2/3
>Large 97.5 percentile
>Average 50.0 percentile
>Small 2.5 percentile
>
>overall height 68.5", 63.3", 58.7"
>top of head to bottom of chin 8.2, 8.0, 7.9
>height of shoulder joint from floor 54.1, 50.0, 46.0
>height of hip joint from floor 36.2, 33.3, 30.4
>height of knee joint from floor 19.6, 18.0, 16.5
>height of ankle joint from floor 3.5, 3.2, 3.0
>center of shoulder joint to elbow 11.1, 10.4, 9.8
>elbow to wrist 10.0, 9.2, 8.6
>wrist to tip of middle finger 7.5, 6.9, 6.3
>width of foot 3.9, 3.6, 3.3
>
>The width of hips and width of shoulders are missing from my notes. I
>will have to go back to the source for details. The steel I cut was for
>the middle set of numbers... representing average U.S. female. Some of
>the pneumatic cylinders I am going to try showed up yesterday.
>
>The first steel cut was 3/4 " rebar... a little heavy for most peoples
>taste, but easy for me to work. The next skeleton is going to be cut
>from square steel tube... lighter and little more delicate welding
>required.
>
>Anyone else out there building?
>
>--
>Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
>AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
>Cherryland Robotics Div.
>1892 Pinewood Ave.
>Traverse City, MI 49684
>(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
>pgrayson@traverse.com
>--

Yes, I'm building a female android but I'm going for the smaller scale.
After reading some of the market research on the Unofficial Small Wonder
Home Page I decided to go with a female android under 5 feet in height.
Ideally it should be the size of a 10 year old (52" max). For my prototype
I'm going with a 4 year old (42") because that is the largest plastic doll I
could find to use as my model. I tried to find a larger child mannequin but
they are difficult to get. As I perfect the servo and software systems in
my compact prototype I'll make larger ones but for now I'll be building my
own "Small Wonder". By the way has anyone else found about the
Correlational Opponent Ratio Enhanced Processing language developed by a
British company which is expected to blow neural nets and fuzzy logic out of
the water?

The skeleton for my android will be mostly aluminum, brass, and stainless steel.

-Herb (tinkering in Texas)

==================================================================================

From: KWink81668@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:21:07 EST
Subject: Re: Android

hello what was that "small wonder web site you were talking about

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:03:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Android

Herb Montes wrote:
--snip--
> By the way has anyone else found about the
> Correlational Opponent Ratio Enhanced Processing language developed by a
> British company which is expected to blow neural nets and fuzzy logic out of
> the water?

> -Herb (tinkering in Texas)
> Author: Herb Montes
> INET: herbmont@tgn.net

----forwarded message follows ---

Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:12:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Blue <rcb1@lex.lccc.edu>
Subject: #7 Preprint: Correlational Opponent Processing in Psychology

robot at http://www.aston.ac.uk/~batong/Neutronics
[rev. 2/7/98 http://www.neutronicstechcorp.com ]
which uses CORE (TM) Processing or Correlational Opponent Ratio
Enhanced Processing or wavelets to learn.

Unification model: Correlational Opponent Processing
Available by email request only.

KEYWORDS: correlational opponent-processing, opponent process,
wavelets, neuro net, excitatory, inhibitory, EXIN, oscillation,
holographic, eigenfunction, chaos, nerves, habituation, discorrelation,
memory, sensations, perceptions, emotions, evolution, brain damage

Abstract:

The correlational opponent-processing theory using wavelets, quasi-
holographic memory and eigenfunction equivalence generates new insights
into many areas of psychology. The model seems especially strong in
joining many contradictory scientific facts into an unifying whole.
Significant implications from the model exist for a wide range of
psychological topics and principles.

The correlational opponent-processing theory is a neuro homeostasis
integration psychological immune theory that would connect phenomena
such as sensation, perception, movement, habituation, memory,
representations, learning, cognition, personality, psychopathology,
paradoxical integration, emotion, and evolution of the mind under a
unified theory.

All brain activity may be viewed as an effort to assimilate and
accommodate all experience into neuro-energy-efficient eigenfunction
equivalence or quasi-holographic correlational opponent-processing
recordings.

Stimuli causes brain wave modulations which interact with carrier or
reference wavelets. This interaction creates a quasi-holographic
stimulus wavelet. The opponent-process creates an opposing quasi-
holographic memory wavelet. Through this process the correlations or
associations of experience are encoded to memory. Every wavelet,
regardless of source or type, triggers an opposing wavelet. The
function of the opposing wavelet or feedback is to diminish the
intensity of neural processing. A wavelet potential is stored or hard
wired as long-term potentiation opponent-processes in nerve cells and
the interconnections between nerve cells. The wavelets are quasi-
holographic and allow recovery of information due to the interaction
of reference carrier wavelets and stimuli, thought, motor movement,
and emotional arousal.

--------end forwarded message-------

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:41:29 EST
Subject: Re: Motor Questions :)

Did you try the motors from one of those old coardless screwdrivers from
Black& Decker they have a good planetary gear system and still have pretty
good strength at reduced voltages for a slower speed.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:56:55 EST
Subject: Re: Android

Building & have built MANY animatronics...Currently working on a timber
Wolf,Parrot And a new type of alpha-numeric eyeball display for a musical
robot trio.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 03:58:30 EST
Subject: Re: Motors & Android

>perhaps a trip to Home Depot or Builders Square (or KMart or WalMart ) is
>in order.
>Look for a small cordless electric screwdriver. (not the drill) / Jim
Janecek

>Did you try the motors from one of those old coardless screwdrivers from
>Black& Decker they have a good planetary gear system and still have pretty
>good strength at reduced voltages for a slower speed / Eric Princz

umm . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
". . . . .. . . .scuze me while I bash my head on the keyboard . . . . . . .
. . .
" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
.@#)JFYL&%& . . . . )(%^
$LtKq . . . .*^B)(T^* . .*T$%#IE . . . . . . . . . . . . . (PO@&IS&%^# . .I&
GU . .
.&(I%FTUL. . I(_A+ . .*(^Q HQ . . *&%WEDFTO . . . . . . . . . LW . .(O^)P& .
P&(*SFGTY . . %^&@#R FE . .(*&S^. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . .

ok ..done . . .

Actually YEAH !. . I really saw the post this-morning . . and stared at the
screen for a minute . . . .slapped myself a couple times in the face . . .
shut the computer off and ran to the Kmart (about 4 blocks away literally) .
I got some kind of Kmart special for $15.99 . .reeeeally great ! (With charger
And Batteries etc. . . .Is the Black&Decker "without" batteries that Eric
mentioned cheaper ???)
Gonna get 5 more tomorrow .

The thing that surprises ME though is that it's 2 FrEaKiN point5 volts ! ! and
at 180rpm (not really) has 20lb/in of TORQUE ! . . . am i missing something ??
. . i mean . . it Doesn't mention amps or anythng but Still . .I was assuming
..( makin an ass out of u and ming ).. that I "Needed" to be looking for
something that was 12v or MORE !

>they have a good planetary gear system
OHHhhh . ."THAT's" what that you call that thing (took it apart as soon as I
got it) . .yeah . .I've been trying to talk myself into making my own
gearboxes like that sometime down the road (maybe) .

>I do not know if you work from models or from blue prints... if you work
>from prints here are the dimensions I am using in my shop to cut steel
>for the skeleton. / Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL

>The skeleton for my android will be mostly aluminum, brass, and stainless
steel. / Herb (tinkering in Texas)

WOW . . .well . . cutting steel . . . um . . I'm actually trying to attempt
this in the Tiiiiiiniest apartment I'm Absolutely sure you've ever seen ! . .
Soooo . . I'll probably use as much Plastic as I possibly can . . also I THINK
I may have to take the "recreating the underlying bone" attitude which may
mean having to make everything rounded and varying diameters etc.
( Also testing out different adhesives right now )

Actually I have a girl lined up to do a body-cast of etc.also . . ( oops . .
well ok NOT any "etc." :) . . . but I don't really bother starting sketches
until I get a casting done ( for sizing etc.) . . I'll get some Rough
sketches done , but anything beforehand ends up being pretty much thrown out
the window anyway (Other than some of the basics)

>After reading some of the market research on the Unofficial Small Wonder
>Home Page I decided to go with a female android under 5 feet in height.

Actually yeah .. the person I'm using is small too (saves on alot of
materials) .. I figure I'll end up making 2 or 3 test versions before I have
one that'll actually be good enough to show off (completed) .

(editing in - ( Gee y'know I DO have her dimensions here (for a casting
bracket) . . 51inches to the shoulders / 63" total? / arms about 25+15inches ?
that's probably not right)

I have a drawing I used on an OLD project from school if you want to look at
"Something" . . . it's at . .
http://members.aol.com/ANIMATRNIC/pic6.html
That's farther than I'd go with drawings that I'd really use probably (though
that Was done ahead of time then) . . I won't do a drawing like That until
This project's probably finished Nowadays .

( If you follow the pics around they take you through the "head-project" I'm
working on right now .) (more pics coming after I reorganize my computer-
files)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (In progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
( home of over 850-links to Animatronics, Robotics & Special-Effects! )
c40479@aol.com

>hello what was that "small wonder web site you were talking about /
>KWink81668@aol.com

That's at . . . http://smallwonder.simplenet.com
( Really needs to have an "Internal Diagram" on the site somewhere though :)

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes <herbmont@tgn.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:50:03 -0600
Subject: Re: Android

At 05:32 PM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>hello what was that "small wonder web site you were talking about
>--
>Author:
> INET: KWink81668@aol.com

The Unofficial Small Wnder Home Page is at: http://smallwonder.simplenet.com

Besides fan info on the television show there are also interesting articles
on robotics and serious discussions on androids in our homes. Check it out.

-Herb

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes herbmont@tgn.net
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:01:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Motors & Android

At 01:14 AM 2/8/98 -0800, you wrote:
>WOW . . .well . . cutting steel . . . um . . I'm actually trying to attempt
>this in the Tiiiiiiniest apartment I'm Absolutely sure you've ever seen ! . .
>Soooo . . I'll probably use as much Plastic as I possibly can . . also I THINK
>I may have to take the "recreating the underlying bone" attitude which may
>mean having to make everything rounded and varying diameters etc.
>( Also testing out different adhesives right now )

I suggest getting the Castolite catalog ($3.00) from:

Castolite
P.O.Box 391
Woodstock, Illinois 60098

The have castable resin products with aluminum powder and wood fiber
mixtures that can be strong and light. You can cast your own gears and make
skeletons for your android without a lot of metal cutting.

>>hello what was that "small wonder web site you were talking about /
>>KWink81668@aol.com
>
>That's at . . . http://smallwonder.simplenet.com
>( Really needs to have an "Internal Diagram" on the site somewhere though :)

I have communicated with the site authors about that. They want to do a
rotating 3D animation of the Small Wonder android with internal workings
overlayed. They're trying to work out the kinks in that.

I will be contributing articles and art on android women in Japanese anime.

I have also been posting messages on robotics on their Vicky's Cabinet
discussion board. I have mentioned your site, Chris, as a place to visit
for your robotics links. They now have the newest Honda android videos to
download on their site. Have you seen those yet?

-Herb

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:28:11 EST
Subject: Re: Japanese Androids

>I will be contributing articles and art on android women in Japanese anime.

COol !! :)
Hey have YOU ever seen any episodes of ANY Japanese Anime videos or Comics
that showed any REAL Details of the inner workings of an Android-Female (or
male I guess)

I've been Trying to get as many videos as I can that showcase androids etc.
and so far have checked . . .
Battle-Angel Alita ( y'know she DID have wings in the original ads ! :(
Ghost in the shell
Armitage
um . . something 66
Key the metal Idol
that . . Robot Carnival thing . .
and UnFrEAKinFortunately they do that "oh let's just leave it up o the
Viewers imagination" thing .. ( translation: that copout thing ! :(

One of the Best things about Japanese Anime in General is that the designers
put ALOT of Thought into the mechanical designs of all the machinery /
buildings / vehicles etc. etc. ( not like in america . . don't even get me
STARTED on HEE-man ! :)
( I'd really love to see if any of the designers decided to tackle some
android inner-workings so far . . . . so far it's usually just a couple tubes
and a joint or something (except for the INTRO to Ghost-in-the-shell . . I
wish skin making was THAT easy:) )

I Really wanted to know what they've been exposed to so far in Japan when it
comes to robotics etc. (in comics AND in real-life)

Are you gonna get into any of the backround philosophies or attitudes behind
the Androids / Robotics in Japanese Anime ??

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

ps. .
Yeah I saw the P2 robot-mpegs as soon as they hit the net (almost) you Know
they're up to the P3 right ?? (check out the latest issue of popular-science-
magazine . .or Something .. somebody just showed me a glimpse of the article
.. maybe it's popular mechanics or something)

ps2. .
I guess I should also ask if you've seen DK96 ? (digital kids 96 female-cgi-
character, popular in japan right now . . has a cd I think . .has a tv show
etc. .. in magazines etc.) (not really anime I guess)

( oh well . . for anybody interested .. my links page is at . . .
http://members.aol.com/c40179 and probably has links for AVI's of the P2
(Honda Robot And DK96 )

GHaHH ! . . that's enough typing :)

Double Arigato Mr. . . . . . .. . oh well . you know the rest :)

==================================================================================

From: apptec@enternet.com.au (Ian Bee)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:49:22 +0930
Subject: Test

Test to see if I've got the address correct. I will post a message
shortly.

--
Ian D BEE&127&127 An elite member of the 365 ths. of the Worlds
population who actually was born on the Fourth of July!!!!

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:36:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Test

Ian
You just did.
Paul

Ian Bee wrote:
>
> Test to see if I've got the address correct. I will post a message
> shortly.
>
> Ian D BEE&127&127 An elite member of the 365 ths. of the Worlds
> population who actually was born on the Fourth of July!!!!
> --
> Author: Ian Bee
> INET: apptec@enternet.com.au
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> -------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:31:09 EST
Subject: Re: Test

>Test to see if I've got the address correct. I will post a message
shortly.

Class :) . . say hi to ian :)
"Hiiiiiii Iaaaaan !" :) LOL

It's been pretty quiet in the List for a week or so . . ( everybody doing
their own thing I think :) . .
(personally "I've" been busy buying drill-drivers to scrounge the motors from
(Jim and everybody were Right . . strong and 90rpm for $15.99) )

( I'd be posting a little more but I've been busy re-typing all my links back
into my AOL-browser .)

anyway . .just to keep some activity flowing . . . here's some links to munch
on .
http://www.robotworld.com ( Look at page1 html !! . . made "Me" drool !
:)
http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/robotics-faq/TOC.html (answers to just about Every
robot question)
http://www.herbach.com (Herbach & rademan NJ)
http://www.pontech.com (servo controller cards)
http://www.robotgroup.org/projects (Reeeeally interesting artistic robots
!)
http://www.robotics.com/robomenu (pics of Tons of amateur (and not so
amateur) robots)
http://www.robotstore.com (good catalog for educational stuff and newbies
especially)
http://members.aol.com/robotfan/droidframe.html (Havn't checked this ne yet)
http://www.MECI.com (electronics "and Motor" supplier)
http://www.robotnet.com (I Think that's right)

Nothing new ( except for the top one . . straight from Malta ! :) . . . not
for a while :( . . I HOPE the new stuff I built up over the last 3 months
didn't get lost !! . . . we'll see soon .

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
c40179@aol.com

ps. . . anybody know of any Short-Circuit sites !?? ( that "Johnny5 robot"
movie )

==================================================================================

From: apptec@enternet.com.au (Ian Bee)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:58:21 +0930
Subject: Brace Yourselves.......here I come!!!!!!!!

Well, Hello there people, I'm finally on board, thank you to all those
of you who acknowledged my test posting....especially Chris Hillman.

I have found Chris's pages with all of his links to be a great source of
inspiration, I truly do hope Chris, that you do get to where you want to
go in this field, you have obviously put in a great deal of time and
effort into helping people such as myself out, in navigating ourselves
around the Net in our quest for knowledge. I am sure that there are many
others lurking out there that have bookmarked your page, again, keep up
the good work.

Okay.....enough of the grovelling thing........my name is Ian Bee, I
live in Adelaide, in South Australia, and own and run a Sheetmetal &
Welding Workshop, "APPLIED TECTONICS" ( Applied...."to put to good
use..." Tectonics......"the art of making useful & beautiful
vessels..."), yeah..... I know, I never had enough toys when I was a
kid.......just can't help myself.....anyway.... which exclusively
supplies the Sign & Advertising industries here in South Australia. I
predominately manufacture large Illuminated Pylon Signs, Hoardings, (
billboards to you guys in the States! ), Sandwich Boards, and anything
else the guys throw at me.

Over the last few years, the demand for things that move has increased
dramatically, and I am forever being asked to make animated displays.
Now, this is probably partly due to some work I did a while back for the
premiere of Jurrasic Park, but that was a one off
project.........something I personally wanted to do......... I wasn't
even commissioned to do the job. I was at work one weekend with my
brother, we were both stoned, and decided that seeing the Pizza Shop was
closed, we would make an 8 foot high Exoskeleton of a
dinosaur.........as you normally would.

Well, It ended up growing as we went along, sort of a cross between a T
Rex and the thing on Aliens, we finished it in a couple of months, amid
the Oooooohs & Aaaahs of my clients as they frequented my shop. All
steel construction, Gloss Black, you actually sit inside it's pelvis,
and snuggle inside it's open rib cage, pull back a lever, and
Whoa!!!......it reclines! The arms and head will allow movement, the jaw
opens & shuts, eyes light up when tripped by an I/R scanner.

I honestly did not know that a film called Jurrasic Park was about to
take the world by storm, well, I was all of a sudden flooded with
requests to have this piece trucked around the State, & Interstate to be
put on display, riding the wave of Jurrasic Fever. Yeah, why not, more
than paid for itself!

This would be probably the only notable project that I would care to put
my name to.....sure, I've done a few little things for Shopping Centres,
etc., but I have tried to lay low since then.
"Lay low " you ask? Yes, I am approaching 40 years old, and work nearly
7 days @ week, turning out mainstream work, which earns good bucks,
however, I am getting tired, so I thought I might turn my attention back
to animatronics. Another deciding factor was that I have now, as most of
you, discovered Stamps.........sort of allows the boundaries of what we
can do stretch somewhat.

So, here I am, 10 Years exposure to the Advertising business, with good
contacts, full blown workshop, stamps, ADB I/O units for Macs, 4
computers, and a reasonable hobbyists understanding of Digital
Electronics.....what else could a guy want?

INFORMATION........... where is the animatronic industry headed? If I am
going to get into this field full time, I don't want to be messing
around all week on a project worth $300.00, when I can punch out
$4000.00 - $5000.00 @ week in Sheet Products. Now, here in Adelaide,
everyone would just love to have a sign or display that does something
unique, but when you tell them the price, they run! Is this the same in
the States? I would of perhaps thought not, seeing that most of the neat
stuff seems to come from there in the first place, and people are
probably educated to the fact that animatronic displays will serve their
advertising needs in a different way as compared to static displays.

I realise that this newsgroup is probably more dedicated to the how
to's, but I figured that there must be many of you guys who are probably
in a similar position to myself, so I guess I am asking for peoples
opinions on where this industry is headed, or where we would like to see
it headed.

As for myself, I have no real interest in pursuing one off projects. I
would like to concentrate my efforts on small runs of products dedicated
to a particular Product / Service that I feel I could capitalise on.
This would therefore allow me to retain my current business size (me!!
).

Are there any groups out there that are having any success doing this
now? Is it a worthwhile venture, to change tack and pursue this field?
Any comments would be appreciated.

Okay........that's enough of the asks. I also would like to contribute
to this group as well. My strengths, well the ones that I can at least
help out on with confidence lay in Steel Fabrication, Lighting, and the
Sign business in general ( especially expert in how frequent the buggers
pay their accounts!! ). Not much, I agree, but I do not wish to comment
on my other rudimentary talents in an open forum when there are others
better qualified than me.

I, as most of you, have a few projects sitting on the back burner, which
I would like to get up and running one day, and again, like yourselves,
stacks of cool ideas. I would welcome any private Email from anyone who
wishes to toss a few ideas around, I don't have any problems telling
anyone what I have been tinkering with..........nothing earth shattering
anyway.

Now, being new to this group, would it be at all possible to perhaps get
some sort of overview of the active participants, along with their
technical backgrounds and strengths? This way, if I have any way out
questions, I know that I can at least forward them to this group with
the knowledge that I am going to solicit reasonable discussion.

I must go now, I am finishing off my tutorial with Claris Home Page, I
want to finish off my Web site, which I hope to update regularly,
showing some details of past works, along with any current works in
progress which if I decide to, tackle in the future.

I do hope that I can become an active participant in any discussions
here, and look forward to any constructive comments / criticisms (
gulp!! ), and Chris, I do hope you do get to California. If you do, I'd
like to drop in and see you next year, I am planning a working holiday
over there for approx. 8 weeks, you know the sort of thing, check out
Disneyland........Universal Studios......... " Well yes of course, I had
to go over there Mr. Tax man.........Hey!....I'm an Animatronics Guy
now!! ............What?.......Wadaya mean my last name's not Lucas?
"........Oops!!! ............. sorry folks.......let me just put this
thing away...........okay....

Right!! I'll look forward to hearing from you guys.

Oh, and to the poor melancholy person that wrote back to me here, saying
that he also was born on the fourth of July, and couldn't find anything
unique to celebrate about it.........or for the human race as a
whole.........I think if this condition persists, you should seek
Medical Advice. I believe you can now get prescription spectacles with
special lenses for this condition.......the lenses are.......... Rose
coloured.......try it out!

Ian D BEE&127&127 An elite member of the 365 ths. of the Worlds
population who actually was born on the Fourth of July!!!!

==================================================================================

From: "Timothy Koeller" tkoeller@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:14:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Test

> It's been pretty quiet in the List for a week or so . . ( everybody doing
> their own thing I think :) . .

I thought maybe we had a major power outage or someone had unplugged the
sync circuits.

> (personally "I've" been busy buying drill-drivers to scrounge the motors
from
> (Jim and everybody were Right . . strong and 90rpm for $15.99) )

Anyone ever see drill-drivers in yard sales at a GREAT price? If so, and
they do not work, what are the most common failure modes? If they tend to
have bad batteries that would not be a bad deal, but if the motors tend to
be shot then not such a good deal.

tim

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:04:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Brace Yourselves.......here I come!!!!!!!!

Ian Bee,
You asked where animatronics might be headed. Here are two
possibilities.
http://www.honda.co.jp/home/hpr/e_news/robot/index.html
http://kentuckylake.com/robots/ursula.htm#top
The most productive (profitable) use for them at the moment is as
entertainers in shows the perform around the clock such as Amusement
parks and casino entertainment. I hope the skills learned in the
construction of these machines will be applied to the design the
production of intelligent machines that can help with human tasks.
(Androids?)
Paul
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 045

ANIMATRONICS-L at FatCity.com
Archives - ( page 6 )

From ANIMATRONICS-L Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:55:01 local from fatcity
X-Digest: Yes
From: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com (Animatronics Mailing List)

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:52:50 -0800
Subject: Re: Test

Timothy,
The most common failure of rechargable tools for home use is failure of
the battery to take a charge. The motor, the gears and even the
charging circuit are usually still good. This happens usually from lack
of use.
Paul

> Anyone ever see drill-drivers in yard sales at a GREAT price? If so, and
> they do not work, what are the most common failure modes? If they tend to
> have bad batteries that would not be a bad deal, but if the motors tend to
> be shot then not such a good deal.
>
> tim

Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:49:23 -0800
Subject: eyes

Black and white television cameras have been reduced to $29.00 at Toys R
Us.
I just bought one to see if they would be good for eyes.
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 03:20:18 GMT
Subject: Re: eyes

In case anyone is interested, I ran across this in a newsgroup. It
looks like the Tyco video cameras might be worth looking at if you're
interested in cheap B&W "eyes" for your android or whatever...

http://www.reality.demon.co.uk/tyco.htm

-Bill Richman
bill_r@inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

==================================================================================

From: Monta Elkins monta@bev.net
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:30:02 -0500
Subject: Re: eyes

Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer wrote:

> Black and white television cameras have been reduced to $29.00 at Toys R
> Us.
> I just bought one to see if they would be good for eyes.
>

So, what do you think about it?

-Monta Elkins

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:08:43 -0800
Subject: Re: eyes

Monta,
So far so good. I was trying it out last night. Good resolution.
Light weight, simple operation. Works well at normal room light levels.
U.S. standard video output. Now all I need is the brain to hook it to.
Paul

Monta Elkins wrote:
>
> Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer wrote:
>
> > Black and white television cameras have been reduced to $29.00 at Toys R
> > Us.
> > I just bought one to see if they would be good for eyes.
> >
> So, what do you think about it?
>
> Monta Elkins
> Author: Monta Elkins
> INET: monta@bev.net

Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: DevilinGR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:38:35 EST
Subject: Re: eyes

Hey there...just got the current conversation about the TycoCam...I bought
three of these just before christmas. I had taken one apart and played around
with it a bit before I even found that site that was mentioned. My impression
of it was that it is good clean video, fairly good resolution, but don't
really agree with Paul about the lighting issue. It does OK, but I think it
could be better. I used an IR illuminator with it and it seemed to be much
more responsive to that then normal lighting. I even tried it with just a
remote and was pleasantly surprised. The optics are the biggest fallback, they
seem to be about f/8 or f/16. I am currently playing with different optics, to
get a brighter, less distorted picture. I hadn't really thought about it for
machine vision for some reason or other, but the actual camera itself is only
about 3/4" by 3/4" maybe not even that..
Oh, there are a few hacks you guys might want to consider doing to the chip...
The Autogain control is turned off by default. All that is needed to change
this is to wire one pin to ground. All I did was drop a piece of solder from
one pin to the one next to it which was grounded. This improved the brightness
alot. The autoiris is on by default. I also tried to wire in a switch to the
backlight pin, but this is where I screwed it up. We're talking about a PLC
style SMD chip...very tiny pins...you breathe and you'll missolder...
I'll have to get the exact pin numbers for the mods and Email them later. I
just got them from the info on the site posted the other day...I followed that
to the manufacturer of the chips (which you might also want to take a look at
anyway!)
Let me know if anyone is interested in the mods...
Scott McDonnell

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 04:40:23 EST
Subject: Re: Brace Yourselves.......here I come!!!!!!!!

UGH ! . .sorry it took a while to reply (been trying to master VisualBasic in
2 days)

>All steel construction, Gloss Black, you actually sit inside it's pelvis,
>and snuggle inside it's open rib cage, pull back a lever, and
>Whoa!!!......it reclines! The arms and head will allow movement, the jaw
>opens & shuts, eyes light up when tripped by an I/R scanner.

Was There a Pic of that on the net somewhere ?? . .I thought I SAW that (had
it bookmarked and labeled) ( I feel Nekkid without my links :(

>I don't want to be messing
around all week on a project worth $300.00, when I can punch out
$4000.00 - $5000.00 @ week in Sheet Products. Now, here in Adelaide,
everyone would just love to have a sign or display that does something
unique, but when you tell them the price, they run!

(BIG DISCLAIMER)
I don't count yet (since I'm not officially working "In The Biiiz" yet) but My
first real experience that convinced Me was one where some "collector" from
Japan was asking around for a full-sized t-rex production . . when my Friend
was confronted with the possibility of doing the project he turned it down
because HE didn't know how to mechanics etc. (it ended up being someone who
was starting a Theme Park in Japan !!) . . . the problem also was that HE
didn't know "I" could do something like that because I havn't been allowing
Myself to tinker in mechanics/animatronics for the past 6 years or so ( I was
thinking . . "naaaaw . . i'd never be able to make a living at Thaaat" ) . .
so when the oppurtunity flew by (he was offering $500,000 . . no kiddin . . if
the friend woulda said yes we'd be in Houses and Suits and Bmw's by now) . .
it was like being in the desert and suddenly seeing a Bus go by on a road that
you were Right Next to for the past 3 miles !!!

my Point IS . . "My" attitude NOW is to make sure you can demonstrate to
people what your ultimate abilities ARE . . even if profession-wise you
aren't planning on Going "That Far" with the projects specifically .
(but that's MY attitude)

>Is this the same in the States? I would of perhaps thought not,
>seeing that most of the neat stuff seems to come from there in the first
place, and people are probably educated to the fact that animatronic displays
will serve their advertising needs in a different way as compared to static
displays.

NOPE ! . . . Well . . maybe it just depends on where you are . . Adelaide
sounds aLOT like Philadelphia when it comes to Running away at the price ! :(
That's Why "I've" HAD to take the "Shove your abilities down their throats"
approach because NoBody around Here seems to want to spend money on Anything
!!
(My HOPE is that when you demonstrate abilities of that nature you don't
really HAve to be right down the street for someone to hire you . . . the
successful companies almost Always seem to do work internationally)
(Somebody Tell Me if I'm Wrong !)

>Is it a worthwhile venture, to change tack and pursue this field?

As for Austrailia I'd check to see if I could find the company "Showtronix
Pty. Ltd."
They say they do Animatronic characters and shows . .and have done projects in
Sydney, New Zealand, US, Singapore, France, Hong Kong, etc. etc
Usually they're mentioned at . . .
http://www.peg.apc.org/~mima
(That seems to be an online magazine from Austrailia ?? . . . the part that
usually includes showtronics seems to come and go throughout the year)
I'd try to see the way They position themsleves etc. . . If they HAD to go
outside that far and get That Big to get any work at all etc.

As for >I would like to concentrate my efforts on small runs of products
dedicated
>to a particular Product / Service that I feel I could capitalise on.

Oh .. . Well there are alot of companies that make robots that operate by
radio control that roll around Theme-Parks or Malls etc. (sort of for multi-
purpose use . . maybe for advertising) (see www.robotnet.com). . those usually
include a microphone for the operator to speak through etc.(Florida Robotics
types that Paul Grayson pointed out)
There's the Chucky-Cheese variety of animatronic characters (Animatronics for
live stage shows)
Mannetron (in Michigan) has make & female animatronic characters that they
mass-produce (usually programmed to do skits etc. at conventions etc.) (Sold
OR rented . . programmed For that particular client to do a specific show
that'll talk about the company etc.)

THAT really gets away from all the other stuff I was saying though . .
Basically in THAT case my "Guess" is that it's probably more just along the
lines of supply and demand .
(It seems to Me that the people who do best at That are the people who are
best at Creating their own demand . . (good salesmen etc) . . . going out and
pursuing clients etc. )

Like I said though . .
(BIG DISCLAIMER) . . This is all really coming from a guy in the same boat
You're in ! . . I've been doing Window displays (sometimes mechanical) and
Signage (cheapy signage) and this stuff I'm typin is from what I've "Gathered"
not from experience yet.

>I realise that this newsgroup is probably more dedicated to the how to's . .
.
That's ok .. "How to" Make Money at Animatronics counts too .

Actually "I'D" like a good answer to the Buisness Ins & Outs Also . . I'm
Right at the point where "IIII" need it Too ! ! !
(I wouldn't mind ANY animatronics "buisness" advice right now !)

>Anyone ever see drill-drivers in yard sales at a GREAT price?

Actually I've had a few people ask me about'em so here goes.
K-mart special (actually a kmart brand called BENCHTOP)
90rpm? . . Says 120 or 180 or something,
2.5 volts
$15.99 . . comes with charger and 2 nicad-batteries iinside
(there was also a Skil-brand that had the same specs)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

ps . .
>I have found Chris's pages with all of his links to be a great source of inspiration,
awwww shucks . . . thanks :)
( I Love gettin an ego-boost like that in the morning :)

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" pgrayson@traverse.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:39:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Brace Yourselves

C40179@aol.com wrote:
> Mannetron (in Michigan) has make & female animatronic characters that they
> mass-produce (usually programmed to do skits etc. at conventions etc.) (Sold
> OR rented . . programmed For that particular client to do a specific show
> that'll talk about the company etc.)

Taking Chris Hillmans lead and expanding upon it:

http://207.226.251.166/mannetron/
For Information on this site contact: gguar@net-link.net

FROM: http://www.computists.com/tcc/tcc3n07.html
Michael Clark is a roboticist, of sorts. His Mannetron (Battle Creek,
MI) makes hydraulic mannequins similar to those at Disneyland.
McDonald's has bought about 20 Ronald McDonalds, sometimes increasing
store sales by 10%. Companies pay $15K-$30K
per pair or up to $5K per trade show. Pairs seem to work best, as
people enjoy watching two mannequins haggle over a menu or otherwise
interact. [Barry Rohan, Detroit Free Press, 8/18. agentsee.]

BIGYELLOW RESULTS: [Amusement Park Rides & Equipment, Barbers' Equipment
& Supplies]
Michael Clark
MANNETRON
74 Leonard Wood Rd.
Battle Creek, MI 49015
(616) 962-3475

HOTBOT RESULTS:
Mannetron, Computer Animated Androids
100%
Mannetron specializes in Computer Animated Androids
http://207.226.251.166/mannetron/index.htm , 3097 bytes, 03Sep97

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: Mascot Matt mascot@phillynet.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:46:59 -0500
Subject: Monday

Hey Eric!

I successfully bailed out of my Monday committment (I'm now on a teachers'
shitlist, but I wasnt looking forward to the 4 hour one-way drive for no pay
anyway).

So, count me in!

==================================================================================

From: Mascot Matt mascot@phillynet.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:48:23 -0500
Subject: Accidentally sent mail to the list

Whoops! Sorry about that all!! :-p A thousand apologies!!!

From: Mark Lipsky mlipsky@effecteng.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:35:19 -0700
Subject: Pulleys & Timing Belts -- Sources?

Hi Everyone.

I am working on a 6' 9" tall character for an upcoming trade show. Some of
the movements are "large" like twisting at the waist. I am looking for a
source of timing belts and pulleys. I have purchased some from McMaster
Carr, but they are very bulky and very heavy. I haven't seen anything I
like in the BERG catalog. I am using 1/4" and 1/2" shafts.

Also, what kind of luck have people had sttaching a small timing belt
pulley right to the top of a servo? It would seem that this would be OK if
the servo had double ball bearings, the pulley was kept close to the top
case of the servo, and the belt tension was not too high. Thoughts?

Thanks,

Mark Lipsky

--------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

From: janecek@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:46:56 -0600
Subject: Re: Pulleys & Timing Belts -- Sources?

>I have purchased some from McMaster
>Carr, but they are very bulky and very heavy. I haven't seen anything I
>like in the BERG catalog. I am using 1/4" and 1/2" shafts.

I made the "L" series (1/2" wide 3/8" pitch) belt and pulley the shop
standard so everything interfaced with everything else.
These use separate pullies and bushings, unfortunately, the QD bushings
only go down to 1/2" size. You would have to put "another" bushing on the
shaft to go from 1/4" to 1/2" Are these the ones you feel are too heavy?

I use them for everything, from turntables to linear movers, both
horizontal and vertical.

==================================================================================

From: Gary Friendshuh gfriends@d.umn.edu
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:49:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Where to go ?

Hi all, I am a college theatre/computer science student (USA).
This summer I and some friends want to build some animatronics
(hands,heads) mostly simple stuff this year for our halloween bash. We
all have pretty good ideas of the physics and the sort. Where are
good/cheap (ha) sources? Controllers, servos, steppers, and of course
books? We don't have a problem with the skin effects its mostly the
skeletons, drives, and logic of the creatures. I assume that most
controllers that can be bought are spendy, are there schematics for simple
controllers? I have a good background with microprocessors, finite sate
machines, and other electronic stuff.

Good tips of do's and dont's would be great also

They pull in some 10,000 people each year, so I would hope they
can afford some stuff for us to play with.

Thanx..

Gary Friendshuh
Lives @: Does:
gfriends@d.umn.edu
www.d.umn.edu/~gfriends Stage Management
(218)-278-2290 Technical Theatre
Apt #2 2125 E Superior St Digital Graphics
Duluth MN 55812 Computer Science

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:09:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Pulleys & Timing Belts -- Sources?

Mark,
Stock Drive Products/Sterling Instruments
2101 Jericho Turnpike, Box 5416
New Hyde park, NY 11042-5416
(516) 328-3300, FAX (516) 326-8827
http://www.sdp-si/com

offers a series of handbooks/catalogs on drive components for small
shops and inventors.
One of them is on timing belts, chains and friction drives.

You might find these useful.

Paul

Mark Lipsky wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone.
>
> I am working on a 6' 9" tall character for an upcoming trade show. Some of
> the movements are "large" like twisting at the waist. I am looking for a
> source of timing belts and pulleys. I have purchased some from McMaster
> Carr, but they are very bulky and very heavy. I haven't seen anything I
> like in the BERG catalog. I am using 1/4" and 1/2" shafts.
>
> Also, what kind of luck have people had sttaching a small timing belt
> pulley right to the top of a servo? It would seem that this would be OK if
> the servo had double ball bearings, the pulley was kept close to the top
> case of the servo, and the belt tension was not too high. Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Lipsky
>
> --------------------------
> Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
> E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
> EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****
>
> --
> Author: Mark Lipsky
> INET: mlipsky@effecteng.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> -------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: Oz <osbornej@epix.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 17:30:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Pulleys & Timing Belts -- Sources?

Mark,

First, sources for timing belts-
1. Stock Drive/Techno/Sterling-516-328-3300 Excellent catalogs &
technical information but frequently out of stock.
2. H. Neuman & Company 847-671-5885- They seem to have everything we
need, in stock at reasonable prices.

3. There are lots more in the Thomas Register. I stopped searching when
I discovered that Neuman could cover for Stock Drive's out-of-stocks on
3mm pitch belts.

Second, regarding the servos- we mounted pulleys on Airtronics Sail Winch
servos and saw too much deflection in the shaft- might work for a while
but would do in the bearings ultimately. We mounted a bearing on the
other side of the pulley to take the strain. Works great. We use three
of these combinations in the wrist of our manipulator, geared down 3:1
with the belts and pulleys, and get around 40 in-lb torque.

Joseph Osborne
President, CFO & FloorSweeper
Arlyn Toolworks

>Hi Everyone.
>
>I am working on a 6' 9" tall character for an upcoming trade show. Some of
>the movements are "large" like twisting at the waist. I am looking for a
>source of timing belts and pulleys. I have purchased some from McMaster
>Carr, but they are very bulky and very heavy. I haven't seen anything I
>like in the BERG catalog. I am using 1/4" and 1/2" shafts.
>
>Also, what kind of luck have people had sttaching a small timing belt
>pulley right to the top of a servo? It would seem that this would be OK if
>the servo had double ball bearings, the pulley was kept close to the top
>case of the servo, and the belt tension was not too high. Thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark Lipsky

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:35:16 +0000
Subject: Re: Where to go ?

At 02:01 PM 2/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
> Hi all, I am a college theatre/computer science student (USA).
>This summer I and some friends want to build some animatronics
>(hands,heads) mostly simple stuff this year for our halloween bash. We
>all have pretty good ideas of the physics and the sort. Where are
>good/cheap (ha) sources? Controllers, servos, steppers, and of course
>books? We don't have a problem with the skin effects its mostly the
>skeletons, drives, and logic of the creatures. I assume that most
>controllers that can be bought are spendy, are there schematics for simple
>controllers? I have a good background with microprocessors, finite sate
>machines, and other electronic stuff.

Hello Gary,

RC type servo controllers are easy to make if you can program a
microprocessor. All you need (from a serial PC port) is an rs232 converter
chip and a microprocessor. These servos determine their position from a
(nominal) 1-2 msec pulse repeated about every 20 msec. The width of the
pulse determines the position of the servo. The servo itself does the closed
loop positioning.

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:12:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Pulleys & Timing Belts -- Sources?

From: janecek@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
>I made the "L" series (1/2" wide 3/8" pitch) belt and pulley the shop
>standard so everything interfaced with everything else.
>These use separate pullies and bushings, unfortunately, the QD bushings
>only go down to 1/2" size. You would have to put "another" bushing on the
>shaft to go from 1/4" to 1/2" Are these the ones you feel are too heavy?

Yes, I bought a couple and they are very nice, but I would like to stick to
delrin parts to keep the weight down.

> From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
>Mark,
>Stock Drive Products/Sterling Instruments
>offers a series of handbooks/catalogs on drive components for small
>shops and inventors.
>One of them is on timing belts, chains and friction drives.
>
>You might find these useful.

Thanks Paul,
I just found a Stock Drive Catalog and they have really nice looking stuff.
I am seeing a line of plastic pulleys with a pressed in brass hub which
should work very nicely.

> From: Oz osbornej@epix.net
>Mark,
>
>First, sources for timing belts-
>1. Stock Drive/Techno/Sterling-516-328-3300 Excellent catalogs &
>technical information but frequently out of stock

This is supposed to be a "standard" reproduceable product I am working on,
so I guess I'd better get second sources if I use them. Thanks.
.
>2. H. Neuman & Company 847-671-5885- They seem to have everything we
>need, in stock at reasonable prices.

Will check them out today.

>3. There are lots more in the Thomas Register. I stopped searching when
>I discovered that Neuman could cover for Stock Drive's out-of-stocks on
>3mm pitch belts.

One of those books I have up on the shelf and keep forgetting to check!
>
>Second, regarding the servos- we mounted pulleys on Airtronics Sail Winch
>servos and saw too much deflection in the shaft- might work for a while
>but would do in the bearings ultimately. We mounted a bearing on the
>other side of the pulley to take the strain. Works great. We use three
>of these combinations in the wrist of our manipulator, geared down 3:1
>with the belts and pulleys, and get around 40 in-lb torque.
>
>Joseph Osborne

Good advice, I will add a third bearing to make sure. Thanks! I was going
to start with the HITEC 805 "Mega" servo. This with the addition of a
third bearing will probably work fine. Anyone have any life expectancy on
the HITEC (or other) servos?
Thanks for the info, all.

Sincerely,
Mark Lipsky

--------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

From: Robert <rbarch@tristate.pgh.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:17:02 -0500
Subject: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

Can anyone tell me if there are any kits, plans, etc. on how to
convert a ordinary DC motor into a servo motor? How I understand the
construction of servo motors, a servo motor is nothing more than a DC motor
with gear reduction and some electronics with a feedback loop.
For some of the work that I want to do standard servo motors cannot be
used. Many times I have looked at "surplus" catalogs and found small
ordinary DC motors that would be perfect if ONLY they were servo motors.
It seems that the only problem with using these motors is that they are
missing the "servo electronics". I would like to add this missing part to
the motor.
I don't think that this would be very difficult to do. I would
prefer to build or buy the electronics rather than just try to remove it
from another servo and transplant it to another motor.
Does anyone have any suggestions or help on how I can do this?
Robert

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:09:33 +0000
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

There was an article in Circuit Cellar Ink (they are on the www, but I don't
have their url) that gave the construction plans for a digital
implementation of a pulse width controlled servo. Used a PIC, I think. If
you want a true dc motor/encoder type servo, a company with the name Kerr in
it (again, I don't have the url) had some plans and kits. I believe they had
an article in Nuts N Volts magazine.

As you alluded to, some people take the electronics from an RC servo and use
it with their own motors.

Mark Lerman

At 07:30 PM 2/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if there are any kits, plans, etc. on how to
>convert a ordinary DC motor into a servo motor? How I understand the
>construction of servo motors, a servo motor is nothing more than a DC motor
>with gear reduction and some electronics with a feedback loop.
> For some of the work that I want to do standard servo motors cannot be
>used. Many times I have looked at "surplus" catalogs and found small
>ordinary DC motors that would be perfect if ONLY they were servo motors.
>It seems that the only problem with using these motors is that they are
>missing the "servo electronics". I would like to add this missing part to
>the motor.
> I don't think that this would be very difficult to do. I would
>prefer to build or buy the electronics rather than just try to remove it
>from another servo and transplant it to another motor.
>Does anyone have any suggestions or help on how I can do this?
>Robert
>--
>Author: Robert
> INET: rbarch@tristate.pgh.net
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:45:45 -0700
Subject: Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 054

> From: Robert <rbarch@tristate.pgh.net>
> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:17:02 -0500
> Subject: Building Your Own Servo Motors?
>
> Can anyone tell me if there are any kits, plans, etc. on how to
>convert a ordinary DC motor into a servo motor?...

Robert,
There is a company called VANTEC (800/882-6832) and they have a product
called the BULLY. As shown on its ad sheet, "R/C AUTONOMOUS BULLEY POWER
CLASSIC PWM SERVO AMPLIFIER

BUILD CUSTOM MONSTER SERVOS
POSITION OR VELOCITY
CLOSED LOOP CONTROL
LAG/LEAD ADJUSTABLE
LIMIT SWITCHES"

You need your motor with some sort of feedback device and this turns it
into a closed loop servo device. I think it's around $400.

Mark Lipsky
--------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

From: "Igor \"WildCat\" Cherepinsky" igor@crrl.poly.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:55:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

Basic idea is that you attach a potentiometer to the motor shaft
(with some gears or directly). You read that potentiometer and do a
position control of the motor. The trick here is to design a controller
that will position the motor accratelly (by running corrent through it, DC
motor's speed and torque are proportional to current) without
overshooting, undershooting, or oscillating for a range of loads. This is quite
tricky.
Most likely you will need a second or third order controller (with
feedback). A couple (or 3) of opamps will do this, but you also need to
know where to put the poles and zeroes of the system. In short my personal
feeling is that unless you can find a chip that was designed to do that,
dont bother. It will be bulky and not very accurate. On the other hand if
this is just for the sake of making the servo work, pick up a book on
linear control, first few chapters will tell you how to deal with such
systems.

===============================================================================
Fight to fly. Fly to fight. Fight to win.

\ / -=< Igor "WildCat" Cherepinsky >=-
\/ \/ igor@crrl.poly.edu
__________/_\ /_\_________

" Keep the blue side up ! "

You can always tell when a man has lost his soul to flying.
The poor bastard is hopelessly committed to stopping
whatever he is doing long enough to look up and make sure
the aircraft purring overhead continues on course and does
not suddenly fall out of the sky. It is also his bound
duty to watch every aircraft within view take off and land.

-- Ernest K Gann, 'Fate is the Hunter'.

===============================================================================

From: rsheridan@CGSD.COM (Robert Sheridan)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:22:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

You don't necessarily need a pot on the motor shaft. A mouse encoder works
fine for low- to mid- end deals. Granted, this means that you're gonna be
playing digital, but if you're PWMing the motor anyway, I don't think this
is a problem.
The basic idea is that the pulse width is some function of the difference
between where you want the motor to be, and where it is (the Error). A
simple scheme is to make the pulse width proportional to error (a
P-controller). Another standard thing to do is use a combination of
functions of the error -
Proportional + Integral + Derivative, or PID controller. Whether or not you
need full PID, depends on the dynamics of your controller and the accuracy
and disturbance rejection you need. Digitally, they're easy to program, as
long as you a fast sampling rate, and you take sample rate into account in
your control algorithm. Any good introductory text on linear control systems
has plenty of info.

Good luck,

RS
------------------------------==================================================================================
Robert Sheridan Office: 650.903.4928
Electromechanical Engineer Lab: 650.903.4930
CGSD Corp. (http://www.cgsd.com/) e-mail: rsheridan@cgsd.com

==================================================================================

From: Jim Ruxton cinetron@passport.ca
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:17:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

> Basic idea is that you attach a potentiometer to the motor shaft
> (with some gears or directly). You read that potentiometer and do a
> position control of the motor. The trick here is to design a > controller
>snip

For simple servo systems you can look at using Motorola's DC servo motor
controller chip MC33030P. It's only good for position control but it has
a 1 amp H bridge built in which is handy. The data sheet shows a few
applications. It's fairly simple to hook up a potentiometer as an input
device and attach a potentiometer to a motor for feedback. The motor
will then track the position of the input pot. If 1 amp isn't enough you
can use the built in H bridge to drive an external one.
Jim Ruxton
Cinematronics

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes herbmont@tgn.net
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:15:42 -0600
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

Look into the PIC-SERVO controller board made by J.R. Kerr, you'll find
info on it at their site:

http://www.jrkerr.com

You can download free documentation and source from there.

The PIC-SERVO board is sold by Jameco, look on their site at:
http://www.jameco.com

Best of luck!

-Herb (robot tinkerer and android builder)

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee jdunfee@shadow.net
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:44:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

>You don't necessarily need a pot on the motor shaft. A mouse encoder works
>fine for low- to mid- end deals. Granted, this means that you're gonna be
>playing digital, but if you're PWMing the motor anyway, I don't think this
>is a problem.

>Author: Robert Sheridan

I recall catching a portion of a series printed in Nuts-N-Volts, I think.
Basically it gave you the functionality of a stepper motor, but with the
much greater strength of regular DC motors. But I only saw the one article,
which didn't give any real useful info on getting one.
Is there a reasonably priced kit, or perhaps a single chip that can deal
with setting up such a sero motor?
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Oz osbornej@epix.net
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 20:43:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

The article was called:

++++++++++
A SWEAT-FREE, WALLET-FRIENDLY WAY TO UPGRADE FROM STEPPERS TO SERVOS -
Jeffrey Kerr
Discover a simple alternative that allows you to use your stepper
controller software to drive virtually any servo control system that
uses a digital encoder for feedback.
++++++++++
and was in the August, 1997 issue.

Joseph Osborne
Arlyn Toolworks

> I recall catching a portion of a series printed in Nuts-N-Volts, I think.
>Basically it gave you the functionality of a stepper motor, but with the
>much greater strength of regular DC motors. But I only saw the one article,
>which didn't give any real useful info on getting one.
> Is there a reasonably priced kit, or perhaps a single chip that can deal
>with setting up such a sero motor?
>Joe Dunfee
>Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: Nic van der Walt nvdw@wasp.co.za
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:18:34
Subject: Re: Building Your Own Servo Motors?

A >> Is there a reasonably priced kit, or perhaps a single chip that can deal
>>with setting up such a sero motor?

NS make a single chip servo controller, rather expensive. I have a couple,
but haven't had the time to start them up. I think the no is LM628, will check
tonight.

Regards
Nic

==================================================================================

From: RatliffGrp RatliffGrp@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:13:29 EST
Subject: Need a Radio Control System??

Hello Group!

I have searched the last few months for a good source for a dependable radio
control system, but have not been able to find exactly what I needed. SO! I
have decided to design my own control systems.

I currently have designed this system : The handheld control is 9 volt
powered, and is about the size of a pack of cigarettes. The input interface is
a 16 function keypad. The built-in transmitter is UHF and has a dependable
range of roughly 500 feet. The encoders and decoders are addressable so that
you may run several units together without interference from each other or
from random electrical noise.

The receiver-decoder-driver is available configured one of two ways: Option A
is: 8 relay outputs with one latching. Option B is: 16 relay outputs with 2
latching. The relay contacts are rated to switch 10 amps, DC. The receiver-
decoder-driver board runs on 12 VDC. This unit is in testing now and
everything looks good. Expected to be released to production within a couple
of weeks.

I am also designing a microcontrolled system which will consist of up to 16
Servo outputs (all real time controllable), plus up to 32 digital switch
closures. The interface will again be handheld, and the transmitter is set to
have the same dependable range as above. This unit is expected to be released
around mid-june.

If you are like me and need a good, low cost, dependable, multifunction
control system... please Email me with your interests. I am considering
selling these to folks like you and me over the internet. Should be available
in kit form and assembled and tested.

PLEASE! SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY!

I look forward to your reply,

David
Ratliffgrp@AOL.COM

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:18:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Need a Radio Control System??

>I am also designing a microcontrolled system which will consist of up to 16
>Servo outputs (all real time controllable), plus up to 32 digital switch
>closures. The interface will again be handheld, and the transmitter is set to
>have the same dependable range as above. This unit is expected to be released
>around mid-june.

>David
>Ratliffgrp@AOL.COM

Can you tell us more about the servo version. What is the input to the
transmitter system?... 8 Joysticks?

Any provision for recording or automatic play-back?
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: RatliffGrp <RatliffGrp@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 20:17:43 EST
Subject: Re: Need a Radio Control System??

Joe,

Thanks for your interest in the radio control system we are producing! You
asked what the input will be for the proportional output. We are planning to
have up to 16 joystick inputs. Of course this will help to determine the size
of the hand held transmitter. Have ways of miniaturizing the joysticks...the
unit should not be too clumsy. Will also interface easily to a WALDO-type
input device.

Currently, the unit being developed is a manual control only and has no option
for recording or automatic playback, but HMMMMM. Good idea! As I write this,
I believe I have figured out how to do that... will get back to you on this.

Thanks again for your interest, and be sure to tell anybody and everybody
about what we are doing...would appreciate the advertisement.

David

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 23:43:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Need a Radio Control System??

>Have ways of miniaturizing the joysticks...the
>unit should not be too clumsy. Will also interface easily to a WALDO-type
>input device.

>Currently, the unit being developed is a manual control only and has no option
>for recording or automatic playback, but HMMMMM. Good idea!

>David

I think I have made other posts on the issue. But, I feel strongly that
the market is lacking COMPLETE systems. Ie. you can buy RS232-to-Servo
devices easy, and with many to choose from. However, your next step is to
write a control program... not an easy task. Mark Lipskie (sp?) has a system
to record to an audio track the data from a specific model of Radio
Controler, but it is limited to 4 servos.

I think the discussion is about systems that individual hobbiest can
afford (ie. not costing $5,000) This kind of system, in my view, should have
the following...

-Shouldn't require a degree in electronics to put together.
-Can handle 4 to 8 channels to start, and be expandable to
handle more servos.
-Can perform live.
-Has available for purchase a system of controlers to plug-in
to it. This may be simple joysticks, but ideally would include
some waldo-type devices.

The following relate to a playback and recording system...

-Can record movements, preferably to an audio track.
-A means of synking the playback to an audio track (perhaps
already solved if the movements are recorded to an audio track)
-Can record those movements one at a time if necessary
-Can edit the movements, one track at a time. (may require
custom software, if something off-the-shelf isn't available)

I think the existing products that almost meet my above goals are from
Media Mation. But, still, to get a complete system would require purchasing
all the components from them at a cost well over $1,000. Every component
will be propriarity to them. It also requires pretty good electronics
knowledge to use. I designed an easy to use playback system using their MIDI
to Servo board. I think it would have ended up costing $600 to $700 for the
playback system.

David, it sounds like you are starting with a system that will require
good electronics knowledge to use. I think that is quite fine to start with.
But, I think to be unique in the market, you would have to plan on making it
more user-friendly in the future. The powersupply needs will vary greatly
with the servos used, but how will a relative novice solve that problem? If
you know the power draws of some servos from Tower Hobbies, list the numbers
and tell them what Radio Shack wall-wart to buy to plug into your system.
(do include a socket for the power supply)
If you are not going to sell your product in a case, then size it so they
can purchase a particular case from Radio Shack (tell them the part #) and
put it together themself using only a screw driver and perhaps drilling a
few holes in the case, at most.
In other words, anything you haven't already done for the user, you must
tell them (in detail) how to do it and where to get the exact parts. Anyone
who can put together a component stereo system, should be able to put your
system together.
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: RatliffGrp <RatliffGrp@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 00:58:22 EST
Subject: Re: Need a Radio Control System??

Joe,

THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT INPUT! I appreciate the time that you took to give
me your ideas and needs. I must apologize here, I really feel that my system
will be a breeze to hook up if it is bought assembled and tested. I will
explain more later.

If the system is bought in kit form, I will do everything possible to make it
"idiot" proof. Heck, if I can build it...it must be easy! :-)

Joe, I will consider all your valuable input in creating this LINE of
products. If there is a proven need for the things that you have suggested, I
will endeavor to develop a dependable product with many options for input
devices such as ready-made WALDOS, etc.

Keep watching for more information soon.

David

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:24:58 +0000
Subject: joystick sample rate

Hello all,

Can anyone tell me the sampling rate for real time joystick activated servo
controllers?

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: jim ruxton cinetron@passport.ca
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:00:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: joystick sample rate

I believe the normal update rate for radio control servos is around 17-20
msecs. So that would be a safe number. I have experimented with higher
update rates on some servos and found I was able to get better performance
ie. less jitter. I'm sure others have suggestions as well.
Jim Ruxton
Cinematronics

==================================================================================

From: C40179 C40179@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 06:23:10 EST
Subject: standard mold techniques ?

OK ! . . I fianally got some progress on the head-project again (animatronic
head) .. (I've been poor poor poor) . .
and have the whole method worked out of creating the inner skull etc.
( all done without having to inject any silicones or latex along the way )

The process "I" came up with was ,
A:make a mould of the guy's head in alginate
B:pour in plaster to get a plaster positive (plaster head)
C:pour latex over that for a negative mould (with a plaster mother-mould)
D:layer-in various silicone-layers of different transparency (slightly
translucent on the surface) into the latex-negative-shell .
E:build-up the silicone to the desired thickness in the different parts of the
face (cheecks a little thicker / eyelids thin etc. , thin out the creases)
F:Trim the silicone so the thickness' are "Fine Tuned" etc. (got a nifty
little pair of surgical-scissors)
G:layer-in plaster to make a positive-core of the inside
H:Vaccuform Lexan over That to make the inner-skull (probably need to be
trimmed slightly)
I :chop that into segments here and there and have servo-rific fun fun fun :)

The Only Question is . . how do people Usually do it ??

It's probably not that deep a question . . my guess is that people usually
want to "Inject" the silicone or latex Into a mold rather than sit there and
sloooowly glop it in like I've done ( that's just better for My purposes
right now though :) so they have some kind of inner core all ready to go in
the First place . . . . I was just wondering if there's any revelations about
dealing with the inner skull design . . any bad Surprises I should be looking
out for ?

The Plan is for about 4-?6 servos to the mouth, 2 for the eyes, 1-2 for the
lids, 4 for the brows, cable control to the jaw (?And mouth) (multi-
direction), ( and a little surprise that i'm not tellin :)

( the Smile Does look like it's going to be the hardest thing :)

Chris Hillman
c40179@aol.com
Animatronics guy (In Progress . . Again finally..geez!)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
( home of over 850 links to Animatronics, Robotics & Special-Effects )

ps. SO HOW's EVERYBODY FrEaKiN DOING !?? . . . it's been Quiet :)

ANy Good Projects !??

(by the way it took "this" long to get my computer running with Windows-98
(beta copy) and all new browsers etc. . . running netscape AND Internet
explorer AND Aol4.0 (beta) . . geez . . those links seem to MUltiply when
you have to start bouncing them ArOunD like that !!)
( AND I'm trying to figure out how to deal with FrontPage98 .. looks nice )

==================================================================================

From: janecek@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:21:40 -0600
Subject: Re: standard mold techniques ?

Burman has a very nice series of How-To videos that explain a number of
mold techniques.

The one you want is called "Silicone and Case Molds"

I watched this thing 3 times to figure out how make a halfway decent
silicone mold.

some sources:

BURMAN Industries (videos and materials) (videos about $30 ea)
14141 Covello Street suite 6-A
Van Nuys CA 91405
818-782-9833

Michael Burnett Productions (video only) (about $30)
po box 16627
No Hollywood CA 91695

Pink House Studios (videos and materials) (videos about $50)
35 Bank Street,
St. Albans, Vermont 05478
802-524-7191
The life casting tape shows how to make lifemasks, full-piece head masks;
one-piece arm and leg molds

also- can you use a mannikin head for your positive mold?
This eliminates the alginate-plaster positive steps.

also- check out a big halloween mask supply store.

I got an Al Gore Mask for a stunt-dummy that was the closest thing to a
"normal" human face that they had, as a bonus, I got a clear, thin
vacu-formed "backing" for displaying the mask, you could use this display
backing as the face of the head if you like and it costs....maybe a few
bucks.

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:14:59 EST
Subject: Re: standard mold techniques ?

Chris,usually it is just painted in a neg. mold and built up in
layers,remember that you need to add a flexable cloth in between the middle
layers to add for tear strength around the mouth and such.
I got an old set of Showbiz animatronic characters about 3 weeks ago,they
have between 16 and 26 functions per character(all pneumatic)It also came with
2 96 channel controlers,And a lot of other animated junk.
I went to the Chicago Halloween show last week,There were lots of bad
animatronics at very steep prices,the most realistic looking ones were two
witches they were cast in Elvax plastic boy did they look great.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 03:48:09 EST
Subject: Re: standard mold techniques ?

> I got an old set of Showbiz animatronic characters about 3 weeks ago,they
have between 16 and 26 functions . . .

Drool !

>per character (all pneumatic) . . .

Drool drool drool . . .

It also came with 2 96 channel controlers,And a lot of other . . .

DROOL DROOL DRO . . . ZzZzZzZzT ! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . geez . . burned out another keyboard
. .
>Chris,usually it is just painted in a neg. mold and built up in
>layers,remember that you need to add a flexable cloth in between
>the middle layers to add for tear strength

yeah but the question is "how do they make the shell?" . . .
They don't build Those up in a neg and put them together do they ???
(well Actually I'm talkin "silicone over mechanics" too)

Really "I" wanna know stuff like . .What are those little DOTS for on the
inner shells i always see :) LOL . . little secret inside info type stuff
like that :) . . i'll bet theyre like some kinda secret-formula super-
adhesive bonding agent of some sort .
(. . well ok OR they're just holes to let the foam-latex through or something)
Is there a good source for the shells to go over the eyes (do people usually
Mold Them ??)
What's a good temporary bonding agent for the eyelids ?? (to the shells)
Is there anything besides silicone-caulk to bond velcro tabs to silicone ?
(that's what i've been trying SO Far anyway)

>It really doesn't take much to make the silicone so stiff that it will be
hard to move
>or flex. . . . . . It is very hard to cut the silicone making it nice
and thin everywhere.

naw . . I got some soft stuff (GI-245) that i took about 3 hours to trim down
the skin to 1/8th inch in certain places

>You will have to be able to remove the skin from the skull .

Velcro (and a slit back under the hairlines)

>How many servos do you think you can fit into the size of a normal size human
head ?

I got a 16servo controller and I wanna use'em ALL ! heh heh heeeeeh <evil
laugh :) (well . . i dunno really :) . .it'll be squashed . .THAT's the FUN
part though "design-wise" !! :)

>There were lots of bad animatronics at very steep prices

Actually . . what Are the prices like for that kind of stuff ?? . . and what
range of complexity did they have ???
And . . . are there any shows like that worth while out here on the East-Coast
:( ??

as for . . .
>a very nice series of How-To videos that explain a number of mold techniques.

Are there ANY videos out there yet that take you through any kind of complete
silicone / mechanical system ?? . . . or anything CLOSE !??

I've "Heard" of a book called Silicone Art from the guy at PTS . . but it
hasn't come in yet . ( don't have the Slightest real idea of what it's going
to be about )

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

ps . . if anyone wants to see what i'm talking about (and hasn't seen it
already) there's a pic of the head (in progress) at . . .
http://members.aol.com/ANIMATRNIC/pic8.html

The whole process (up to about 4 moths ago) is at . .
http://members.aol.com/robomaker . . (then click on the head pic)
same old stuff

( putting video-capture card back in .. in about an hour probably, so I can
FINALLY FrEaKiN Scan some new head pics in !!! :)

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 17:23:08 +0000
Subject: Servo Controller Update

Hello all,

Just completing a *major* update to my servo controller. Originally it was
optimized for robotics - it was designed to control a robotic arm, in fact.
I have just re_optimized it for animatronics - 9600 baud instead of 2400,
plus numerous other changes and simplifications have made it over 10 times
more responsive.

Plus, I have added an optional (very inexpensive) serial decoder board. This
tiny (1.0 x 0.8 inches) board can be permanently put into your animatronics
character. A three wire cable provides the servo signals, power, and ground.
The decoder separates the serial signal into normal servo signals. If power
is supplied internally, only a 2 wire cable is required. Thus, one
controller can be used for many characters (one at a time, of course).

Plus, I have added *MEMORY*, so that your finished programs can be
downloaded into the controller for autonomous playback. By utilizing a
unique movement_compression_encoding system I have devised, you can play
many minutes (or even hours) of movement of up to 8 servos, with full
control of speed and position for each.

The complete board (ver 2.00) is only 1.95 x 2.75 inches, including memory!
Included are 6 bits of digital input and 8 bits of digital output under full
program control. Pauses of virtually any length (in increments of 10
milliseconds) are supported as are branches and loops under digital input
control (eg branch to step 122 if bit 1 hi). These easily implemented
instructions let you store numerous programs on the board and play them back
as desired.

In the future I am hopeful of implementing a simplified smpte (or other)
mechanism for audio synchronization, as well as joystick control.

Note to any of you that have purchased my original (1.20) controller. I will
be happy to send you a new (programmed) mcu chip to update your board for
$5.00 plus $2.00 shipping. This is less that the cost of the chip itself.
You will not have the memory version, since that requires a new board, but
the update will allow you to use the decoder board.

Prices:

Controller board 2.00 kit $79.95
Controller board 2.00 assembled $94.95
Decoder board kit $14.95
Decoder board assembled $24.95

Controller Board 1.20 kit $49.95
Controller Board 1.20 assembled $64.95

Note that the current companion PC program requires DOS to operate. If
enough demand is there, I will port it to Windows 95. Please indicate your
interest.

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: gregwong@CGSD.COM (Gregory Wong)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:31:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Servo Controller Update

>downloaded into the controller for autonomous playback. By utilizing a
>unique movement_compression_encoding system I have devised, you can play
>many minutes (or even hours) of movement of up to 8 servos, with full
>control of speed and position for each.

Wow...I tried doing something similar in a mechatronics class I took at Cal.
This is great. Do you reveal this compression encoding with a purchase of
your boards?

>In the future I am hopeful of implementing a simplified smpte (or other)
>mechanism for audio synchronization, as well as joystick control.

What type of joystick control are you looking for?

Are you located in San Diego? I'm currently working in Mt. View (close to
Stanford). I've been following this mailing list a little, but I have
noticed that you're quite active. Are you in the business as a hobby or is
it a full-time profession for you?

I love working on robots, but my current job has placed me in a more
software/graphics project for the time being. I'd like to know more about
other projects you do or have done in the past.

here's to autonomy in robots,
greg

p.s. do you know much about neural networks by chance?

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:36:22 -0800
Subject: Walking Elephant

The local news had a short segment about a person who built a Roman
Engine to fling old cars into the air and the camera panned past a life
size mechanical elephant with a person riding it.

Did anyone see this? Did your version of the story say anything about
the elephant?
I would like to talk to the person who has this elephant.
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: rbarch@tristate.pgh.net
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 01:47:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Walking Elephant

Mr. Grayson,
I believe I know of the person that you are talking about. I don't
know
his name either but he is a member of the British aristocracy. He is a
Duke or a
Earl and lives in his castle in England. He was mentioned on a
television show on
the Discovery network (I think). He was shown using his Roman Engine
but nothing
was said about his walking elephant.

Robert Barcheski

==================================================================================

From: Devilin GR <DevilinGR@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 02:10:24 EST
Subject: Re: Walking Elephant

Well....I am not positive this is the same thing, but i have some pictures I
pilfered off the internet about a mechanical walking elephant. I think what
you saw on television was part of ROBOT'S RISING on Discovery. They showed a
picture of the elepant, but didn't really say much about it. I know that it
was constructed from steel framework..I will see if I can find the site again,
let me know if you want the pictures I have.

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 07:24:51 +0000
Subject: Re: Walking Elephant

I don't know anything about the elephant, but Chris Hillman has a link to a
guy who built a 50 foot high tyranasaurus that crushes cars. Quite a piece
of hardware. It folds down in some way for transport. I forget the cost, but
I believe it was in the millions.

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 07:24:52 +0000
Subject: Re: Servo Controller Update

At 03:30 PM 4/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>downloaded into the controller for autonomous playback. By utilizing a
>>unique movement_compression_encoding system I have devised, you can play
>>many minutes (or even hours) of movement of up to 8 servos, with full
>>control of speed and position for each.
>
>Wow...I tried doing something similar in a mechatronics class I took at Cal.
>This is great. Do you reveal this compression encoding with a purchase of
>your boards?
>
>>In the future I am hopeful of implementing a simplified smpte (or other)
>>mechanism for audio synchronization, as well as joystick control.
>
>What type of joystick control are you looking for?
>
>Are you located in San Diego? I'm currently working in Mt. View (close to
>Stanford). I've been following this mailing list a little, but I have
>noticed that you're quite active. Are you in the business as a hobby or is
>it a full-time profession for you?
>
>I love working on robots, but my current job has placed me in a more
>software/graphics project for the time being. I'd like to know more about
>other projects you do or have done in the past.
>
>here's to autonomy in robots,
>greg
>

The encoding method is no big secret. The chip I use has a lot of ram (plus
8k rom), so most of the functions are in firmware. The most important of
these is speed control. I can tell any servo to move from point a to point b
at speed x, and it will do so. To encode, I simply have to store speed and
ending point of each move for each servo. I compress the data by having each
'saved' point start with a key byte whose bit patterns tell which servos are
active in the saved step. The speed and end positions are then saved to
memory (in a somewhat compressed form themselves). By doing this, I can
store several thousand movements of eight servos in about 8k of memory. The
exact number depends on how many servos are moving at a time.

One unique feature of my controller is that in program mode (attached to a
PC), there is a constant dialog between the controller and the PC, so that
the PC does not have to keep track of where the servos are. The controller
feedsback this info on a need to know basis.

Wish I lived in San Diego, but I live on the other coast - Northwest of NYC.
If you'd like further info on what I do otherwise, email me directly.

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Mr308 Mr308@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:31:34 EST
Subject: DIMM Modules

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have the pinouts for DIMM modules? Also, I am looking at DIMM
modules with and without the EEPROM. So far, it appears the EEPROM is not
required for 16 meg but is for greater sizes. The EEPROM is referred to as a
serial Identity unit, it contains the speed, size of memory and manufacturer.
What format is this info in?
If anyone knows the answers to these and any other of life's burning
questions, let me know.
Marty Lane

==================================================================================

From: janecek@tezcat.com (Jim Janecek)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:55:48 -0600
Subject: figures in the Chicago -area

Does anyone know of a Chicago-area source for a animatronic figure for
RENTAL for use in a Trade Show?

or , a non-Chicago based source.

Someone is looking for options, (they will probably end up with a mannikin,
based on their budget.)

I cannot find my Amusement Park Sourcebook at the moment.

==================================================================================

From: D Williams <dew@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:49:26 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Books

Hello,

I am relativity new to the robotics/animatronics field, and I am working on
a few small projects in my free time, what I would like to ask is: does
anyone know of any good robotics/animatronics books? Most of the information
that I know came from the book "ROBOT EVOLUTION-The development of
anthrorobotics" and from reverse engineering remote controlled cars. I would
like to increase my knowledge on this topic greatly, however, most of the
books I have found do not give me the information I need to help me with any
of my projects, so I am coming to you guys/gals for help.

Thanks

Don

Every human has four hungers..
The hunger of the body,
The hunger of the mind,
The hunger of the joins,
and the hunger of the soul.

dew@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
Mechanical Engineering
University of Alberta

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes <herbmont@tgn.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:48:28 -0600
Subject: Re: Walking Elephant

At 06:31 PM 4/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>The local news had a short segment about a person who built a Roman
>Engine to fling old cars into the air and the camera panned past a life
>size mechanical elephant with a person riding it.
>
>Did anyone see this? Did your version of the story say anything about
>the elephant?
>I would like to talk to the person who has this elephant.
>--
>Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
>AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
>Cherryland Robotics Div.
>1892 Pinewood Ave.
>Traverse City, MI 49684
>(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com
>--

If it was on either Robots Rising or Mega Movie Magic it was probably about
the animatronic elephant built for the Disney movie "Dumbo Drop".

-Herb

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes <herbmont@tgn.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:52:44 -0600
Subject: Re: Books

At 11:50 AM 4/3/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>I am relativity new to the robotics/animatronics field, and I am working on
>a few small projects in my free time, what I would like to ask is: does
>anyone know of any good robotics/animatronics books? Most of the information
>that I know came from the book "ROBOT EVOLUTION-The development of
>anthrorobotics" and from reverse engineering remote controlled cars. I would
>like to increase my knowledge on this topic greatly, however, most of the
>books I have found do not give me the information I need to help me with any
>of my projects, so I am coming to you guys/gals for help.
>
>Thanks
>
>Don
>
>----

Go to my new website "Android Workshop" and check out the robot reference
library page. It has quite a few robotics books with authors, publishers
and ISBN numbers to help your local bookstore get them for you. And you
could always try Amazon Books at amazon.com.

It is at: http://www.tgn.net/~texpanda/

-Herb

==================================================================================

From: "Jan Wuesten" Jan.Wuesten@mh2.cts.com
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:05:29 +0000
Subject: Re: DIMM Modules

> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 07:32:32 -0800
> To: Multiple recipients of list ANIMATRONICS-L <ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com>
> Reply-to: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com
> From: Mr308 Mr308@aol.com
> Subject: DIMM Modules
> Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California

> Hello everyone,
>
> Does anyone have the pinouts for DIMM modules? Also, I am looking at DIMM
> modules with and without the EEPROM. So far, it appears the EEPROM is not
> required for 16 meg but is for greater sizes. The EEPROM is referred to as a
> serial Identity unit, it contains the speed, size of memory and manufacturer.
> What format is this info in?
> If anyone knows the answers to these and any other of life's burning

Hi, check the chipdir at
www.chipdir.com

or the hardwarebook

(you find the link to that at the chipdir at "misc" links)

Jan

Frag'Jan Zuerst -----Ask Jan First
Jan Philipp Wuesten Elektronik
Ernst-Ludwig Strasse 16
D- 64372 Ober Ramstadt
Germany
Phone: +49-6154-29160
Fax : +49-6154-29161
please visit me at
http://www.tu-darmstadt.de/~wuesten (German)
http://www.tu-darmstadt.de/~wuesten/engindex.htm (English)
or mail to
wuesten@hrz1.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes <herbmont@tgn.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 21:43:35 -0600
Subject: "Android Workshop" website

Announcing "Android Workshop", my website about the design and
construction of a personal android. My diary, which will be
updated monthly, will document the experimental process of the
creation of what will hopefully be the robot of the future,
including working drawings and photos. So drop by at:

http://www.tgn.net/~texpanda/

-Herb Montes

==================================================================================

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:54:53 EDT
Subject: Re: figures in the Chicago -area

>Does anyone know of a Chicago-area source for a animatronic figure for RENTAL
for use in a Trade Show?

Well Actually that site that someone mentioned here about a month ago was the
first that came to mind . . .
http://www.mannetron.com
616 - 962 - 3475
They Specifically make animatronic characters for trade-shows / exhibits etc.
(among other things) .
( They're based in Battle Creek, Michigan, I'm not sure how close that is to
Chicago )

>they will probably end up with a mannikin, based on their budget.

uh oh . . well . . i dunno . . i havn't checked the prices recently . .
I don't know if they have a budget package .. lol :)
( used to be $2500 - 5000 including programmed motions and scriptwriting etc. )

Chris Hillman
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com
c40179@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 11:21:18 -0700
Subject: interesting web page

Here is an interesting web page that a fellow researcher pointed out to
me:

http://www.mister-computer.com/animatronics/

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

ANIMATRONICS-L at FatCity.com
Archives - ( page 7 )

From ANIMATRONICS-L Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:55:00 local from fatcity
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:55:00

From: Bruce_Bergman@smtpgate.mitchell.com (Bruce Bergman)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:58:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Servo Controller Update

Mark --

As one of your satisfied current customers, I must say that this is really great
news! Sounds like the potential for this has increased quite a bit.

A couple questions:

> I have just re_optimized it for animatronics - 9600 baud instead of 2400,
> plus numerous other changes and simplifications have made it over 10 > >
> times more responsive.

How about the DOS program? Did it grow to support faster communication
(9600 baud) with the board?

> Plus, I have added an optional (very inexpensive) serial decoder board.

If I understand this right, the serial board could be used to control
several object simultaneously, with one set of commands. I.e., if I wanted
three characters to move their arms in sync with each other, I could attach
each one to a different decoder board and then just send the same movement
commands to all of them. Is that right?

How could you control the boards independently? I'm thinking of a situation
where I have several characters connected on the same "serial bus" (for lack
of a better term) and want to control them identically some of the time, and
individually other times. Is each decoder board able to respond to any
commands or just commands to itself?

Anyhoo, please put me on the list for a chip update and one decoder board
kit. If you lost my address, let me know and I'll send it to you again.
I'm looking forward to playing with it (plenty of time before Christmas for
me to get my animated reindeer running... ;-).

thanks!

bruce

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:28:22 +0000
Subject: Re: Servo Controller Update

Bruce,

The dos program now communicates at 9600 baud with the controller. This,
plus numerous other firmware changes, eliminates those very slight pauses
theat sometimes occur between movements.

The serial decoder board is a very small (< 1 square inch) board that can be
permanently put into a character,. A 2 or 3 wire cable then connects to the
controller board. This board is simply an extension of the servo board. By
using this board you eliminate having to attach and detach all your servos
from the controller each time you want to controll a different character.
Just plug the character's serial board into the controller.

BTW, to make several servos 'track' with each other, all you have to do is
wire them in parallel. My controller (and probably some others) has more
than enough output current to control many servos per output line.

The newest board is quite small (2.25 inches x 1.75 inches), and features a
eeprom memory chip. Once you have developed your 'program' on the PC, it can
be downloaded onto the board for autonomous playback.

The PC program allows you to save programs to disk, download to the board,
upload from the servo board, etc, making a fairly complete system. It can be
synched to external sources via it's digital input lines and commands such
as 'don't move til input 1 goes low'.

In the future I am hopeful of implementing a simplified smpte (or other)
mechanism for audio synchronization, as well as joystick control.

Prices:

Controller board 2.00 kit $79.95
Controller board 2.00 assembled $94.95
Decoder board kit $14.95
Decoder board assembled $24.95

Controller Board 1.20 kit $49.95
Controller Board 1.20 assembled $64.95

Note that the current companion PC program requires DOS to operate. If
enough demand is there, I will port it to Windows 95. Please indicate your
interest.

Mark Lerman

At 04:04 PM 4/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Mark --
>
>As one of your satisfied current customers, I must say that this is really
great
>news! Sounds like the potential for this has increased quite a bit.
>
>A couple questions:
>
>> I have just re_optimized it for animatronics - 9600 baud instead of 2400,
>> plus numerous other changes and simplifications have made it over 10 > >
>> times more responsive.
>
>How about the DOS program? Did it grow to support faster communication
>(9600 baud) with the board?
>
>> Plus, I have added an optional (very inexpensive) serial decoder board.
>
>If I understand this right, the serial board could be used to control
>several object simultaneously, with one set of commands. I.e., if I wanted
>three characters to move their arms in sync with each other, I could attach
>each one to a different decoder board and then just send the same movement
>commands to all of them. Is that right?
>
>How could you control the boards independently? I'm thinking of a situation
>where I have several characters connected on the same "serial bus" (for lack
>of a better term) and want to control them identically some of the time, and
>individually other times. Is each decoder board able to respond to any
>commands or just commands to itself?
>
>Anyhoo, please put me on the list for a chip update and one decoder board
>kit. If you lost my address, let me know and I'll send it to you again.
>I'm looking forward to playing with it (plenty of time before Christmas for
>me to get my animated reindeer running... ;-).
>
>thanks!
>
>bruce
>--
>Author: Bruce Bergman
> INET: Bruce_Bergman@smtpgate.mitchell.com

==================================================================================

From: Oz <osbornej@epix.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 09:40:33 -0400
Subject: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

I am new to this list and perhaps this is in a FAQ so please direct me.

We wish to control larger motors than are available in RC servos. My
approach is to take apart the servo & clip off & discard the motor & gear
train. Then run the motor output leads into a current amplifier circuit
and connect the motor to them. I am also thinking of adding a precision
pot although I don't know that we would gain any advantage in accuracy of
position control.

Has anyone done this? What were the results?

Joseph Osborne
Arlyn Toolworks
Rehab Robotics

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:36:47 -0400
Subject: Hefty Servos

>We wish to control larger motors than are available in RC servos. My
>approach is to take apart the servo & clip off & discard the motor & gear
>train.

>Joseph Osborne

Are you aware that "hobby" servos are available that have 50 oz-inches of
torque? I think Tower hobby carries them. How much torque do you need?
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:21:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

Hello all,Yes I've done that,It does work I recomend using opto isolators
between your servo electronics and your driver circuit this is the best way to
eliminate any noise that may pop up.........I'v used this to control stepper
and AC motors from rc servo boards also.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:42:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Hefty Servos

If you still want a standard servo((linear or rotery)) with a lot of force I
recently received a few catalogs with some custom servos in them.....$500.00
and up but they were if the ft lbs torque range........VERY NICE!

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Herb Montes <herbmont@tgn.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:08:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Hefty Servos

At 08:30 PM 4/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>We wish to control larger motors than are available in RC servos. My
>>approach is to take apart the servo & clip off & discard the motor & gear
>>train.
>
>>Joseph Osborne
>
> Are you aware that "hobby" servos are available that have 50 oz-inches of
>torque? I think Tower hobby carries them. How much torque do you need?
>Joe Dunfee

The largest servo available is an industrial power servo sold by Hobby
Lobby. Send $2.50 for their catalog containing RC components and motors
for electric planes from:

Hobby Lobby International
5614 Franklin Pike Circle
Brentwood, Tennessee 37027

The servo is cat. # HLSI1562 and has a torque of 33 pounds of force at the
output arm. It measures 3 1/4" long, 2 3/4" high, 1 1/2" wide, and sells
for $179. It requires its own 6 volt power supply and can be used with any
brand radio system, it just needs the connector for that brand.

Get the catalog, its got lots of great stuff to tinker with.

-Herb

==================================================================================

From: Oz <osbornej@epix.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 10:35:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Hefty Servos

Twenty to forty inch lbs would do it. Currently we are using sail winch
and sail arm servos which have 200 oz-inches. Not enough and the servo
takes up too much space. I want to mount just the motor & some gearing in
the robot hand, mount the control circuitry elsewhere.

Joseph Osborne
Arlyn Toolworks

+++++++++++++++++++++++

>>We wish to control larger motors than are available in RC servos. My
>>approach is to take apart the servo & clip off & discard the motor & gear
>>train.
>
>>Joseph Osborne
>
> Are you aware that "hobby" servos are available that have 50 oz-inches of
>torque? I think Tower hobby carries them. How much torque do you need?
>Joe Dunfee
>Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: rsheridan@CGSD.COM (Robert Sheridan)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:59:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Hefty Servos

Eric -

Could you let me know the names of the servo catalogues you received, and
where I might obtain them? We've been looking for some cheaper servos (our
app doesn't require incredible precision), but all the local suppliers
market to the semiconductor industry and sell precision equipment for
exorbitant prices.

Thanks and regards,

Robert Sheridan

>If you still want a standard servo((linear or rotery)) with a lot of force I
>recently received a few catalogs with some custom servos in them.....$500.00
>and up but they were if the ft lbs torque range........VERY NICE!
>
>Eric Princz
>Creative Design & Engineering
>Monkee1291@aol.com
------------------------------==================================================================================
Robert Sheridan Office: 650.903.4928
Electromechanical Engineer Lab: 650.903.4930
CGSD Corp. (http://www.cgsd.com/) e-mail: rsheridan@cgsd.com
------------------------------==================================================================================

==================================================================================

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:55:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

>My approach is to take apart the servo & clip off & discard the motor & gear
train. Then run the motor output leads into a current amplifier circuit and
connect the motor to them.
>Has anyone done this? What were the results?

Actually "I" really need an answer to this also .
"I" always had the assumption that I could just connect the motor leads to a
couple solid-state-relays , then run whatever motor I wanted through the
relays . That was before I realized that the servos had proportional voltage
going to the motor (the voltage tapers off as the gear get's closer to the
intended position so the motor won't overshoot.)

I've seen a few larger servos Too but have totally been put off by the prices
!!!
The catalogs I'VE seen have been Vantec and CK-electronics . .
Vantec 1 805-929-5055 neat stuff :)
CK 1 805-522-3750 . . hmm . . well . . I see a servo for $199 that says
6-8.4V gives 907 oz/in to 1271 oz/in (how many oz's in a pound again ?? . .
and What the *&$^&%* Happened to switching to the Metric Sytem ! ! ? ! ?! .
.I've been FrEaKIN Waitin for YeArS for the US to . . . . oops sorry)

I Have seen pages talking about the problems encountered with that kind of
thing (electrically) on a couple of the Robot Wars competitor sotes ! (I'm not
sure if they connected stronger motors to servos or just standard rc-speed-
controllers though .)

If you want to scrounge around the net a little I found a couple "Possibly"
useful pages mostly from Arricks links page . .
http://www.robotics.com/robots.html

http://www.rdrop.com/~marvin/explore/servhack.htm (hacking an rc-servo .
.pretty basic stuff though)
http://www.west.net/~rondoc/motfaq.html (general questions ??)
http://turbine.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/staff/onat/servobasics.html

http://www.eng.morgan.edu/~hollisr/dcmotor.html (control speed & dir of motor
with Fets)

i dunno . . i didn't check them yet ( been going crazy slooOoOooly getting my
computer-world organized again . . . time finally for an upgrade to the modem
etc. too )

Also here are a few Robotwars sites . .they're usually pretty informative (in
a step by step instructional way) . .

http://www.tmz.com/96tmz.html (team minus zero)
http://www.teamdelta.com/
http://www.halcyon.com/jlb/dl/
http://www.simreal.com/Boris/ (pretty neat lookin little gadget)

one of the first two has a bigger links page of the other robotwars sites (I
think I had'em but lost'em for the moment)

Anyway . . "I'M" about to go through the exact same thing . . (Finally got
enough money to get some work done on the mechanics etc. . . . ahhh ..
glorious tax refund)

If You get any great info , feel free to forward some to me . . I'm gonna
need'it

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:43:52 -0700
Subject: Dance

Anyone building a dancer?

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:47:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Dance

I've been thinking about adding enough movement to get it to work with Cable-
control etc. (just for show) . . . then maybe trying to do a few full
mechanical dancers down the road sometime (just alot of talk and speculation
Now though)

(I was also trying to get a guy to let me motorize his lingerie clad mannequin
so the hips rotated etc. (nothing complex)

why? are you ? :)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

by the way . . on That note . . anybody know who did the robotics for the old
Herbie Hancock video ?? . . .
you know . . . the cool vocoder one . . .

that had alot of movement

not . . dancin . . . . but . . . walkin really interestingly :)

==================================================================================

From: Oz <osbornej@epix.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 17:36:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

Eric,

I've found a circuit using two LM12 op amps (3 amps) which looks like =
it would do the job. However it seems there ought to be some way to =
use low power op amps- e.g.741's to adjust voltages and TIP31 =
transistors to amplify current to drive a 2 amp 24 volt motor. =
However I am getting tangled in the fact that the transistors are one =
way polarity devices. The main sticking point is I want to use a 24 =
volt motor and a single +24 volt power supply. If I used a =B124 =
(plus & minus) 24volt supply it would be easier.

What kind of circuitry did you use? Is anything available off the =
shelf?

Joseph Osborne
Arlyn Toolworks
Rehab Robotics

>Hello all,Yes I've done that,It does work I recomend using opto isolators
>between your servo electronics and your driver circuit this is the best
>way to
>eliminate any noise that may pop up.........I'v used this to control =
stepper
>and AC motors from rc servo boards also.
>
>Eric Princz
>Creative Design & Engineering
>Monkee1291@aol.com
>--
>Author: MONKEE1291
> INET: MONKEE1291@aol.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>I am new to this list and perhaps this is in a FAQ so please direct me.
>
>We wish to control larger motors than are available in RC servos. My
>approach is to take apart the servo & clip off & discard the motor & gear
>train. Then run the motor output leads into a current amplifier circuit
>and connect the motor to them. I am also thinking of adding a precision
>pot although I don't know that we would gain any advantage in accuracy of
>position control.
>
>Has anyone done this? What were the results?
>
>Joseph Osborne
>Arlyn Toolworks
>Rehab Robotics

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:39:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

What I did was to use a low cost rc servo for its electronics((futaba)) just a
side note Signetics used to sell a Great servo chip...The sn544,,It allowed
you to change the servos dead band,pulse width responce and other features
they had probably 50 pages of tech notes.
I took the output leads that went to the motor and wired a 150 ohm resistor
to one of the leads then i wired a 2501 opto coupler in place of the
motor,then i wired a second opto in reverse of the first.....when the servo
goes forward opto 1 operates when the motor reverses opto 2 operates when the
feedback pot= the motor postion nether opto isolates the output of the opto
isolators drive a H-bridge motor driver using 3055 npn transistors(or mosfets
for more power)

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:41:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

Ps: H-bridges CAN use a single edge supply.

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:27:08 +0000
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

There was an article in Circuit Cellar Ink that detailed a digital
implementation of an RC servo using a PIC microprocessor and an H bridge.
Very inexpensive, plus you can adjust the deadband, etc (in firmware).

Mark Lerman

==================================================================================

From: Jeff Zahir <jzahir@halcyon.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:19:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

Do you remember which issue?

Thanks

Jeff Zahir

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:10:37 +0000
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

I don't remember the issue number, but I'll look for it. They are on the web
http://www.circuitcellar.com or some such thing, so you could probably do a
search.
If I find the issue, I'll post it - if there is enough interest, I could
scan it as well.

Mark

==================================================================================

From: Nic van der Walt <nvdw@wasp.co.za>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:40:19 +0200
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

>I've found a circuit using two LM12 op amps (3 amps) which looks like it
would do the job. However it seems there ought to be some way to use low
power op amps- e.g.741's to adjust voltages and TIP31 transistors to
amplify current to drive a 2 amp 24 volt motor. However I am getting
tangled in the fact that the transistors are one way polarity devices. The
main sticking point is I want to use a 24 volt motor and a single +24 volt
power supply. If I used a =B124 (plus & minus) 24volt supply it would be
easier.

LM12's are very expensive parts. The only reason ever to use them is if
space is critical. You can match
their preformance very closely by using a TL071 and hooking up external
current amplification. The basic=20
circuit does require a split supply, but you can get around that by using a
H bridge configuration. The=20
only problem is that you then require 4 output transistors. The best
devices to use is undoubtedly TIP142/
TIP147 pairs. The exact circuit you are looking for is very simple,
essentially a single supply audio
amplifier with the frequency compensation devices left out.

Regards
Nic =20

==================================================================================

From: Nic van der Walt nvdw@wasp.co.za
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:40:19 +0200
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

Regards
Nic =20

==================================================================================

From: Oz <osbornej@epix.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 09:22:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

Mark,

The web address you gave is correct. A few articles are posted as
Acrobat files .pdf. However most articles are on their ftp site and the
titles are not very descriptive. If you can find it and post the date &
title I might be able to download it.

Joseph Osborne
Arlyn Toolworks

==================================================================================

From: Mark Lerman <mlerman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:02:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Controlling larger motors w/RC Servo Board

Sigh :-)

I looked once, but their cutsy titles make everything so difficult! I'll
look again later today or tomorrow. I believe it was about 2 years ago.

Mark

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 14:40:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Servo Controller Update

Here is something we might be able to use:
Evolution of Mechanical Fingerspelling Hands...
http://guide.stanford.edu/TTran/jrrd.html
--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: cinetron@mail.passport.ca
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:53:13 +0000
Subject: Gilderfluke EFB controller

I was wondering if anyone on this list has experience with the
Gilderfluke Quad EFB Controller. I am building a number of Pan/Tilt
heads that will be driven by DC. gearmotors. I want to be able to run
these either off of a joystick or DMX512. For DMX512 I would use the
Analog Output Smart Card which takes DMX in and puts out 16 0-10 volt
signals which would feed the EFB 4 axis servo cards .. I would have to
follow the EFB controller with a servo amp of some kind and mount a
pot on each of the pan/tilt axes for feedback. I'd appreciate hearing
from anyone who has experience with a configuration like this.

Jim Ruxton

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:38:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Gilderfluke EFB controller

> I was wondering if anyone on this list has experience with the
>Gilderfluke Quad EFB Controller. I am building a number of Pan/Tilt
>heads that will be driven by DC. gearmotors. I want to be able to run
>these either off of a joystick or DMX512. For DMX512 I would use the
>Analog Output Smart Card which takes DMX in and puts out 16 0-10 volt

Sounds like you are making automated lights. Is this true? I have been
been toying with the idea of making some motorized mirrors to make myself
some low-end automated lights. Mostly so I can light a mobile show without
having to haul out so many fixtures. With movable lights I would hope to be
able to re-aim the lights so they can serve multiple purposes. However, the
commercial automated lights that have the necessary light output are quite
expensive. All I want to do is aim and change color (4 colors would be fine).
Sorry, but I don't have any info on the controler you are talking about.
Can you tell us more about your project?
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:31:10 -0700
Subject: Mannetron update?

Hi all,
Does anyone know if Mannetron is still in the Animatronics business?

Here is one of the Mannetron web pages.
http://www.mannetron.com
mannetron@aol.com

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: "Eck Timothy J" <eckt@msoe.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:19:58 -0500
Subject: Pneumatic Parts

Is anyone familiar with HR Textron AND/OR Atchley Controls servo cards and
actuators? I've used similar components, but not integrated
actuators/valves.

Tim Eck
eckt@msoe.edu

==================================================================================

From: C40179 <C40179@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:31:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Mannetron update?

>Does anyone know if Mannetron is still in the Animatronics business?

yeah the button says "computer controlled androids" as a caption .
It just seems to be taking a while for the site to develope .

(look who's talkin though)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress .. and taking forever)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: "Jose" jose@sinlimites.com.ar
Date: Thu, 07 May 98 18:54:15 PDT
Subject: Re: Gilderfluke EFB controller

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cm9uQG1haWwucGFzc3BvcnQuY2ENCg0KRmF0IENpdHkgTmV0d29yayBTZXJ2aWNlcyAgICAt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==================================================================================

From: MONKEE1291 <MONKEE1291@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:12:41 EDT
Subject: Re: Pneumatic Parts

I have a couple of the Atchleys,what do you want to know?

Eric Princz
Creative Design & Engineering
Monkee1291@aol.com

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 00:02:09 -0400
Subject: Lighting development list

Since there has been some recientl discussion on the subject, I thought I
would mention the following maillist. It is not exactly an active list (it
has been several weeks since I have seen anything on it) But it is still active.

==========================
The Lighting Control Systems Developers mailing list (light-dev) is a forum
for people who are developing or interested in developing lighting control
hardware or software. People interested in other forms of theatrical
control and automation are also welcome.

If you have specific questions regarding the purpose of this list, please
send mail to
light-dev-owner@listserv.prodigy.com

To join the light-dev mailing list,
send the following command in email to
"light-dev-request@listserv.prodigy.com":

Or you can send mail to "majordomo@listserv.prodigy.com" with the following
command
in the body of your email message:

subscribe light-dev youraddress@mail.com

Here's the general information for the list you've
subscribed to, in case you don't already have it:

Welcome to Lighting Control Systems Developers.

The Lighting Control Systems Developers mailing list (light-dev) is a forum
for people who are developing or interested in developing lighting control
hardware or software. People interested in other forms of theatrical
control and automation are also welcome.

If you have specific questions regarding the purpose of this list, please
send mail to
light-dev-owner@listserv.prodigy.com
==================================
Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: cinetron@mail.passport.ca
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:28:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Gilderfluke EFB controller

Thanks Jose for the info.
Joe, no this isn't for automated lights . Its for a pyro effect.
I'm currently investigating three options:

Option 1
An analog based system using the Gilderfluke EFB (electronic feedback
modules) with DC motors, Servo Amps and a pot for feedback

Option 2
A digital feedback system using quadrature encoder feedback and
digital servo boards

Option 3
The RC servo type solution using large RC servo motors and either
designing my own voltage to servo signal board or buying one from
Gilderfluke

I often build my own servo systems using the quadrature encoder
approach and a micrcontroller . This time around since this is a show
going on the road I want to find an "off the shelf" type solution
that can be easily replaced . I don't have the time to build my own
backups etc. Interestingly I'm finding all 3 solutions similar in
price when I consider 16 axes (ie. 8 pan tilt heads) . I'll let you
know how I do it in the end. Thanks for the input

Jim Ruxton
Cinematronics
Toronto, Canada

>
> Sounds like you are making automated lights. Is this true? I have been
> been toying with the idea of making some motorized mirrors to make myself
> some low-end automated lights. Mostly so I can light a mobile show without
> having to haul out so many fixtures. With movable lights I would hope to be
> able to re-aim the lights so they can serve multiple purposes. However, the
> commercial automated lights that have the necessary light output are quite
> expensive. All I want to do is aim and change color (4 colors would be fine).
> Sorry, but I don't have any info on the controler you are talking about.
> Can you tell us more about your project?
> Joe Dunfee
> Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:34:18 -0700
Subject: LEGO

Hi Paul,

Tony here, after searching once again for the Lego robot manual, I found
it. The website is:
http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/people/fredm/projects/6270/

The book is in .pdf format and you will need Adobe Acrobat to read it.
Enjoy. It's only 5 megs long.

If interested, the course notes from their 97 competition can be found
at:

http://web.mit.edu/6.270/www

the book is from 1992 and it is what the following years competitions
have been based on. the links to other years are here as well - there
was the robo golfer, the robo ant, and the robo rat, just to name a
few. All of these appear to be based on the original plans from 1992,
or the book, which is on the first website in this letter.

Tony Paddock
SiberTiger Technologies

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: Charlie Richmond charlier@show-control.com
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New Mailing List...

Hi Folks!

We have a new majordomo mailing list ... it's Richmond Sound
Design's Press Release List, sending out a single page press
release once a week on average. It covers our more interesting
Show Control and Theatre Sound projects and we expect members of
this list might be interested ;-)

To subscribe, email majordomo@show-control.com and put
subscribe rsd-pr
in the body of the message.

Thanks!

Charlie

"AudioBox 16x16 matrix w/8 track Hard Disk Sync/Wild Playback"
"---------TCI Sound Product of the Year Award - 1997---------"
+--Charlie Richmond-Richmond Sound Design-Vancouver, Canada--+
+-http://www.show-control.com http://www.theatre-sound.com-+
+-Join our mailing list - mailto: majordomo@show-control.com-+
+------------put in message body: subscribe rsd-pr-----------+
+-------Sound & Show Control for Live Shows since 1972-------+

==================================================================================

From: GATOCRANE GATOCRANE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:12:19 EDT
Subject: Hello, motion Control camera crane

Hello all,
I'd like to introduce myself to the group. My name is Abad Rosa and I am
building a robotic camera crane system.

You can check out my site at www.gatocrane.com

Has anyone here undertaken a similar project? Any tips and suggestions are
greatly welcomed!!!!!

Abad Rosa

==================================================================================

From: cinetron@mail.passport.ca
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:14:58 +0000
Subject: Stop Motion info. needed

I was wondering if anyone on the group knows of a source on how to
do stop motion animation. ie. how much movement is necessary per
frame, how many frames per movement etc. I'm sure there is a tradeoff
on quality of image vs. amount of movement but just wondering if
there are any guidelines.
Thanks
Jim Ruxton
Cinematronics

==================================================================================

From: "John Floyd" jfloyd@cyberzone.net
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:38:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Stop Motion info. needed

Well, of course the math is easy...30 frames per second...move an inch in
one second=30 frames per inch=60 inches per minute=5 feet per minute=300
feet per hour which is probably about...well, really slow.
Say one inch per frame=30 inches per second=1800 inches per minute=1.7 miles
per hour, which is like somebody waving their hand...so as far as moving a
small model a certain amount for each frame...well, trial and error, Baby!

==================================================================================

From: GATOCRANE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:41:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Stop Motion info. needed

I think tests and experimentation would be your best bet. try it in video
first....

==================================================================================

From: LaughingEgg@webtv.net (Steve Weber)
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:41:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Stop Motion info. needed

Dear Jim,

First of all try and locate two books.
Both are no longer in print, but they will
guide you through all the basics of object and puppet animation. You
should be able to track them down through Amazon.com (internet book
search)....or check out the libraries.

"Puppet Animation In The Cinema"
by
L. Bruce Holman
A.S. Barnes and Co. 1975
ISBN 0-498-1385-5

" The Focal Guide To Shooting Animation"
by
Zoran Perisic
Focal Press Ltd. 1978
ISBN 0-240-50973-0

Also, log onto HotBot.com and search for "Stop-Motion Animation",
"Puppet Animation"..
etc. You'll be pleasantly surprised at what pops up.

Peace,
Steve Weber
The Laughing Egg Studio

==================================================================================

From: cinetron@mail.passport.ca
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:59:07 +0000
Subject: Re: Stop Motion info. needed

Thanks a lot Steve. These books sound interesting. I'll try and get
my hands on them.
Jim

==================================================================================

From: cinetron@mail.passport.ca
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:59:07 +0000
Subject: Re: Stop Motion info. needed

Thanks for the help. Yes I figured trial and error would be
necessary but I was hoping someone would have tried and made the
errors for me already. Just being lazy I guess.
Jim

==================================================================================

From: Bruce_Bergman@smtpgate.mitchell.com (Bruce Bergman)
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:44:52 -0700
Subject: Modern thinking (was: Stop Motion info. needed)

Semi-related to this is an interesting blurb I read in Time's Digital
magazine. Apparently, European trains speed through stations/depots
quite frequently on the average commute. To make use of this time in
passing the station, a company came up with a way to show 30-second
advertisements to the train RIDERS as they go through a station.

They paint the station's back wall with a kind of reflective white
paint (I guess like what's on a projection screen?) and aim 900 (yes,
hundred) projector lenses at the wall. As the train enters the
station, the projectors start flashing one frame of a 30-second
commercial, all sync'd with the speed of the train. A similar sync
process is used to time the voice-over and pipe it into the train
compartment so that the words sync with the ad movement.

The result, which is apparently quite successful, is a 30-second ad,
projected on the wall of the station. Any train rider looking out the
window will see it as if they were watching TV. Anyone in the station
will just see very short flashes of light on the wall, and likely
ignore it. It's kind of like a stretched out stop-motion system.

Can you IMAGINE the cost, though? 900 projectors? Wow...

Cheers,

bruce

==================================================================================

From: cinetron@mail.passport.ca
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:41:19 +0000
Subject: Re: Modern thinking (was: Stop Motion info. needed)

This sounds interesting. I suppose one could do this with 900 puppets
or scenes in different positions with a synced strobe light. Imagine
that cost !!!

Jim Ruxton
Cinematronics

==================================================================================

From: Mascot Matt <mascot@phillynet.com>
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Gorilla casting

Hi Eric!

I poured the 1st layer of latex tonight & will let it sit FOR 30 minutes &
pour the latex back into the pail. I'll pour a 2nd coat tomorrow morning
before I leave for the weekend (I'll be back Sunday night). dEPENDING ON
HOW FAST THE COATS DRY, i SHOULD BE DONE IT BY tUESDAY OR Wednesday. Oops,
sorry about that :-p

How many coats does Distortions use? I'm never really sure when to stop...

* Matthew J Brady / AtG! Marketing & Entertainment Services
* PO Box 813, Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006
* (v) 215/ 721-2310 (f) 215/ 721-3228
* Email: mascot@phillynet.com Web: www.mascot.org

==================================================================================

From: Mascot Matt <mascot@phillynet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aargh- Sorry about the "Gorilla Casting' accidental post

Sorry about that gang! I gotta be more careful about that 'sendto' field :-p

* Matthew J Brady / AtG! Marketing & Entertainment Services
* PO Box 813, Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006
* (v) 215/ 721-2310 (f) 215/ 721-3228
* Email: mascot@phillynet.com Web: www.mascot.org

==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:02:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Aargh- Sorry about the "Gorilla Casting' accidental post

yeah .. but .. well .. How many coats Does Distortions use ?? :) lol

==================================================================================

From: Steve Axtell <steve@axtell.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:54:51 -0700
Subject: Axtell Puppet page updates

There quite a few updates on our puppet page. We welcome you to take a
look if you haven't visited us in a while!

Steve Axtell / Axtell Expressions, Inc!
***************************************
Webpage http://www.axtell.com
Auction http://www.axtell.com/auction.html

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 151

ANIMATRONICS-L at FatCity.com
Archives - ( page 8 )

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Tue, 02 Jun 1998 Volume 1998, Number 152

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:11:34 -0700
Subject: Programmer

Good news,
I have met a computer programmer, here in Traverse city who programs in
C++ and who builds computer control systems in his home shop. He has
been at it for years and has designs that use older style, cheap,
processors. One of his regular suppliers has a board that controls 50
servos for $50.

He is willing to work on Animatrons, as long as he does not have to
leave Traverse City. So if any of you out there need help on the
controllers or programming end, he is available at reasonable expense.

I plan to hire him to build up the controllers for the body I am working
on.

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 152
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 159

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 08:58:52 -0700
Subject: Fw: Engineer's cookbook

> > Subject: FW: Engineer's cookbook
> > Date: Friday, June 05, 1998 8:06 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Why Engineers Don't Write Recipe Books:
> > Chocolate Chip Cookies:
> > Ingredients:
> > 1.) 532.35 cm3 gluten
> > 2.) 4.9 cm3 NaHCO3
> > 3.) 4.9 cm3 refined halite
> > 4.) 236.6 cm3 partially hydrogenated tallow triglyceride
> > 5.) 177.45 cm3 crystalline C12H22O11
> > 6.) 177.45 cm3 unrefined C12H22O11
> > 7.) 4.9 cm3 methyl ether of protocatechuic aldehyde
> > 8.) Two calcium carbonate-encapsulated avian albumen-coated
> > protein
> > 9.) 473.2 cm3 theobroma cacao
> > 10.) 236.6 cm3 de-encapsulated legume meats (sieve size #10)
> > To a 2-L jacketed round reactor vessel (reactor #1) with an
> > overall heat transfer coefficient of about 100 Btu/F-ft2-hr, add
> > ingredients one, two and three with constant agitation. In a
> > second 2-L reactor vessel with a radial flow impeller operating
> > at 100 rpm, add ingredients four, five, six, and seven until the
> > mixture is homogenous. To reactor #2, add ingredient eight,
> > followed by three equal volumes of the homogenous mixture in
> > reactor #1. Additionally, add ingredient nine and ten slowly,
> > with constant agitation. Care must be taken at this point in the
> > reaction to control any temperature rise that may be the result
> > of an exothermic reaction.
> >
> > Using a screw extrude attached to a #4 nodulizer, place the
> > mixture piece-meal on a 316SS sheet (300 x 600 mm). Heat in a
> > 460K oven for a period of time that is in agreement with Frank &
> > Johnston's first order rate expression (see JACOS, 21, 55), or
> > until golden brown. Once the reaction is complete, place the
> > sheet on a 25C heat-transfer table, allowing the product to come
> > to equilibrium.
> >
> > PS - don't try this at home.<<
> > And a reply:
> > 1. I would tend to question the use of a #4 nodulizer for extrusion of
> the
> > final reaction mixture. At that point, my preference would be to dispense
>
> > empirically using a teaspoon.
> > 2. The oven temperature is too low by 4 degrees. No sense in
> > being imprecise.
> > 3. One substitution that might appeal to some would be crushed
> > walnuts in place of the peanuts, green peas, or mesquite beans.
> > 4. I think it needs more vanilla.
> >
> >
> >

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 22:22:11 -0700
Subject: alien sunglasses

C40179,

I am looking for the supplier of alien sunglasses.
They were on a MTV Fashion show catwalk, everyone on one show was
wearing them. When you put them on, they black out your eyes into the
shape of the eyes on a small grey.
I can sell a ton of them here if I can find who makes them!

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 159
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 160

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 05:47:05 EDT
Subject: Re: Stop Motion info. needed

well geez i HOPE it isn't Moot by now (my computer's been in the shop and i
missed some pretty neat email over the past couple weeks)

One of the ideas I had to make sure i was making the moves at the right speed
was to actually make a film of myself acting out the moves ahead of time with
paper figures or objects or whatever . . then when it came time to animate
the final film I could just count the frames that ot took to make each move
etc.
( probably would have to Really OverAct all the moves etc. so you could see
them on the tiny frames . . . that's assuming you're talking about "Film"
too though )

The best advice I really have is . . the Slower and the more Consistant the
better !
The BEST animation I ever did was actually my FIRST one because I was sooo
Paranoid to move anything too far that it came out nice and smooth and very
deliberate looking . . . after a year or so i started getting lazy and
evrything started moving at Light-Speed :( . . . ( that was when i was young
and didn't measure out Anything :(

I always had the problem of trying to speed things up "just a little" by
making the movements a little wider etc. ( it got REAL HOT under the movie
light I used back then . . and after 5 hours or more it kind of Got to you )

Sometimes people cheat a little and take Two frames per movement etc.
especially in cartoons etc. . . . it gives a kind of jumpy effect to a
certain extent but isn't Too bad . . . depending on the project . . . ( I
think i've even seen 3 frames in some cartoons )
i'll BET Gumby was done taking two frames at a time .

are you trying for a Gumby look . . or a StarWars look ???

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (and a member of the 11yr-old star-wars generation that
immediately grabbed their 8mm cameras and tried to re-make star-wars on a $10
a week budget . . . and did it Reeeeally Reeeally crappy !!! . . . but learned
alot :)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

ps. Come to think of it . .what the @*%$# ARE you doing !??? :) LOL

ps2. Come to think of it though . . i saw a piece of "how-to" video when PBS
ran the Wallace and Grommit series and the Guy who did THAt just FrEaKiN
Didn't measure ANYThing !! . .HE just FrEaKiN GRABBED everything and ReApLACED
TEETH and Stuff in MID-SHOT etc. ! ! ! . . I couldn't FrEaKiN . . . . . . oh
well . . . of course . . HE had a neato little jog-shuttle dial hooked-up to
a vcr running from the film-camera's eye-piece so he could check the last 50
frames AS he WORKEd .

do you got one of those ?? . . .

and . .um . . . . can i come and visit for a week if you do ??? :)

------------------------------

From: cinetron@mail.passport.ca
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:48:25 +0000
Subject: Re: Stop Motion info. needed

Thanks for all the insights Chris. Good advice is never too late. The
project hasn't started yet. I'm just gathering info. I haven't even
seen a script yet, though I just found out the characters are things
like a toad, lizard, worm, etc. I didn't know the slightest thing
about this subject before but thanks to people on the list I am
beginning to get a handle on it. Thanks to everyone.
Some of you might be interested in the other project I was asking
about some time ago. I am designing servo controlled pan/tilt heads
for steering 20 foot flame jets around. These are to be used in the
upcoming Kiss tour and possibly a WWF tour. We decided to use the
Tonegawa Seiko rc type motors to keep the control system simple.
Initially we tried out the Gilderfluke Servo controller. It seemed to
have a major flaw in that when the control voltage into the servo
controller went below a certain voltage pulses out to the servo
motors shut off. The motors had to be controlled by DMX 512
eventually which would mean stringing a couple of their boards
together and trying to deal with the problem I mentioned. In the end
I designed my own board. It takes in DMX 512 and controls two axes of
servo motors. This way I can put a board close to the pan/tilt head
and run DMX 512 directly to it. Would it be worth designing and
selling a board like this using DMX 512 to control more servo axes
or does it already exist somewhere other than Gilderfluke? Thanks
for any input.

Jim Ruxton
Cinematronics
>
> well geez i HOPE it isn't Moot by now (my computer's been in the shop and i
> missed some pretty neat email over the past couple weeks)
>
> One of the ideas I had to make sure i was making the moves at the right speed
> was to actually make a film of myself acting out the moves ahead of time with
> paper figures or objects or whatever . . then when it came time to animate
> the final film I could just count the frames that ot took to make each move
> etc.
> ( probably would have to Really OverAct all the moves etc. so you could see
> them on the tiny frames . . . that's assuming you're talking about "Film"
> too though )
>
> The best advice I really have is . . the Slower and the more Consistant the
> better !
> The BEST animation I ever did was actually my FIRST one because I was sooo
> Paranoid to move anything too far that it came out nice and smooth and very
> deliberate looking . . . after a year or so i started getting lazy and
> evrything started moving at Light-Speed :( . . . ( that was when i was young
> and didn't measure out Anything :(
>
> I always had the problem of trying to speed things up "just a little" by
> making the movements a little wider etc. ( it got REAL HOT under the movie
> light I used back then . . and after 5 hours or more it kind of Got to you )
>
> Sometimes people cheat a little and take Two frames per movement etc.
> especially in cartoons etc. . . . it gives a kind of jumpy effect to a
> certain extent but isn't Too bad . . . depending on the project . . . ( I
> think i've even seen 3 frames in some cartoons )
> i'll BET Gumby was done taking two frames at a time .
>
> are you trying for a Gumby look . . or a StarWars look ???
>
>
> Chris Hillman
> Animatronics guy (and a member of the 11yr-old star-wars generation that
> immediately grabbed their 8mm cameras and tried to re-make star-wars on a $10
> a week budget . . . and did it Reeeeally Reeeally crappy !!! . . . but learned
> alot :)
> http://members.aol.com/robotweb
> c40179@aol.com
>
> ps. Come to think of it . .what the @*%$# ARE you doing !??? :) LOL
>
> ps2. Come to think of it though . . i saw a piece of "how-to" video when PBS
> ran the Wallace and Grommit series and the Guy who did THAt just FrEaKiN
> Didn't measure ANYThing !! . .HE just FrEaKiN GRABBED everything and ReApLACED
> TEETH and Stuff in MID-SHOT etc. ! ! ! . . I couldn't FrEaKiN . . . . . . oh
> well . . . of course . . HE had a neato little jog-shuttle dial hooked-up to
> a vcr running from the film-camera's eye-piece so he could check the last 50
> frames AS he WORKEd .
>
>
>
>
>
> do you got one of those ?? . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
> and . .um . . . . can i come and visit for a week if you do ??? :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Author:
> INET: C40179@aol.com
>
> -------------------------
>
>

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 160

Archives - ( page 9 )

From ANIMATRONICS-L Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:55:00 local from fatcity
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:55:00
X-Digest: Yes
To: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com
From: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com (Animatronics Mailing List)
Subject: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 164

ANIMATRONICS-L Digest Sun, 14 Jun 1998 Volume 1998, Number 164

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:30:45 -0700
Subject: How to get started

Dear List,
I have just been reading:

ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD,
by John Iovine, c1998, McGraw-Hill (about $19.00)

It is a good survey of the field.
Each of the current areas of robot research have been mentioned and
there are projects that are easy to build which highlight many of the
technologies mentioned.

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 164
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 165

------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:36:44 -0700
Subject: Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 164

Get it from amazon.com and you can save about $4.00. When I ordered mine,
it was here in a couple of days.

Mark Lipsky

> From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:30:45 -0700
> Subject: How to get started
>
>Dear List,
>I have just been reading:
>
>ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD,
>by John Iovine, c1998, McGraw-Hill (about $19.00)
>
>It is a good survey of the field.
>Each of the current areas of robot research have been mentioned and
>there are projects that are easy to build which highlight many of the
>technologies mentioned.

--------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

From: "Eck Timothy J" <eckt@warp.msoe.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:49:37 -0500
Subject: Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 164

Can you tell us more about what's in it? Animatronics or robotics or
???? Are the projects worth the buy?

-Tim Eck

> Get it from amazon.com and you can save about $4.00. When I ordered mine,
> it was here in a couple of days.
>
> Mark Lipsky
>
>
>
> > From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
> > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:30:45 -0700
> > Subject: How to get started
> >
> >Dear List,
> >I have just been reading:
> >
> >ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD,
> >by John Iovine, c1998, McGraw-Hill (about $19.00)
> >
> >It is a good survey of the field.
> >Each of the current areas of robot research have been mentioned and
> >there are projects that are easy to build which highlight many of the
> >technologies mentioned.
>
> --------------------------
> Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
> E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
> EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****
>
>
> --
> Author: Mark Lipsky
> INET: mlipsky@effecteng.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> -------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>

==================================================================================

From: Steve Millward <millstev@isu.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:35:29 -0600
Subject: Re: How to get started

Hello,
Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
lights, and sound. Thanks

Steve Millward

==================================================================================

From: Monta Elkins <monta@bev.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:00:32 -0400
Subject: Re: ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD

It's like a cookbook of small systems.
(I've just skimmed it so far...)
ultrasonic rangefinding, IR dectors. air muscles.

After I get a chance to read it, I'll post a review if
noone else has by then.

-Monta

Eck Timothy J wrote:

> Can you tell us more about what's in it? Animatronics or robotics or
> ???? Are the projects worth the buy?
>
> -Tim Eck
>
> > > From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
> > > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:30:45 -0700
> > > Subject: How to get started
> > >
> > >Dear List,
> > >I have just been reading:
> > >
> > >ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD,
> > >by John Iovine, c1998, McGraw-Hill (about $19.00)
> > >
> >

--
-Monta Elkins

------------------------------

From: Charlie Richmond <charlier@show-control.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:35:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: How to get started

On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Steve Millward wrote:

> Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
> robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
> lights, and sound. Thanks

The company that we know of which has the most experience (and does it all
the time....) is Mediamation in Torrance, CA. Send email to Dan Jamele at
mediamat@aol.com or call them at +1-310/320 0696.

Tell them Charlie Richmond referred you ....

Good luck!

Charlie

"AudioBox 16x16 matrix w/8 track Hard Disk Sync/Wild Playback"
"-------- TCI Sound Product of the Year Award - 1998 --------"
+- Charlie Richmond-Richmond Sound Design-Vancouver, Canada -+
+ http://www.show-control.com http://www.theatre-sound.com +
+ Join our mailing list - mailto: majordomo@show-control.com +
+----------- put in message body: subscribe rsd-pr ----------+
+------ Sound & Show Control for Live Shows since 1972 ------+

------------------------------

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:25:49 -0400
Subject: MIDI controlers

>Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
>robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
>lights, and sound. Thanks
>
>Steve Millward

This has been discussed a month or so ago, but I don't know if there are
any archives for the list (is there?).
Anyway, I haven't gotten to try it out yet, but a company called
Mediamation sells a MIDI-to-Servo board that costs around $200. You have to
supply your own power supply, but I haven't come across anything else in
that price range. It will control 8 servos, and you can configure it for
either low or high resolution. But that setting is for all 8 servos, and it
seems like MIDI doesn't have enough bandwidth to do all 8 moving at the same
time in high resolution.
Has anyone here tried this board?

their URL is http://www.mediamat.com

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 166
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 167

------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:16:37 -0700
Subject: Re: How to get started

I think the equipment from Media Mation is MIDI based:

Media Mation
2461 West 205th Street, Suite B100
Torrance, CA 90501

(310) 320-0696
FAX (310) 320-0699
mediamat@aol.com

They have a web site, I believe, but I don't know the address.

Mark Lipsky

> From: Steve Millward <millstev@isu.edu>
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:35:29 -0600
> Subject: Re: How to get started
>
>Hello,
>Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
>robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
>lights, and sound. Thanks
>
>Steve Millward

--------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 167
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 168------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Millward <millstev@isu.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:19:13 -0600
Subject: Re: MIDI controlers - Thanks !!

Thanks so much to Joe and everyone else that replied to my inquiry. I
really appreciate it.

Steve Millward

Joe Dunfee wrote:
>
> >Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
> >robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
> >lights, and sound. Thanks
> >
> >Steve Millward
>
> This has been discussed a month or so ago, but I don't know if there are
> any archives for the list (is there?).
> Anyway, I haven't gotten to try it out yet, but a company called
> Mediamation sells a MIDI-to-Servo board that costs around $200. You have to
> supply your own power supply, but I haven't come across anything else in
> that price range. It will control 8 servos, and you can configure it for
> either low or high resolution. But that setting is for all 8 servos, and it
> seems like MIDI doesn't have enough bandwidth to do all 8 moving at the same
> time in high resolution.
> Has anyone here tried this board?
>
> their URL is http://www.mediamat.com
>
> Joe Dunfee
> Miami, Florida USA
>
> --
> Author: Joe Dunfee
> INET: jdunfee@shadow.net
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> -------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

------------------------------

From: Bruce_Bergman@smtpgate.mitchell.com (Bruce Bergman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:07:02 -0700
Subject: Re: MIDI controlers

Hi Everyone...

Yes, the list is archived. To get help with any of the features of
ListGuru, send an E-mail message to:

ListGuru@fatcity.com

And in the message BODY, put:

HELP

If you want to see what is archived for this list, put:

INDEX ANIMATRONICS-L

If you want to get the table of contents, put:

GET ANIMATRONICS-L CONTENTS.TXT

If you want to get a particular file, put:

GET ANIMATRONICS-L <filename>

Etc. Enjoy!

thanks,

bruce

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: MIDI controlers
Author: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net> at SMTPGate-Mitchell
Date: 06/16/1998 17:32

>Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
>robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
>lights, and sound. Thanks
>
>Steve Millward

This has been discussed a month or so ago, but I don't know if there are
any archives for the list (is there?).

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 168
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 169

------------------------------------------------------------

From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 01:28:04 GMT
Subject: PC Relay Card with 3 relays

Spotted the following on eBay (www.ebay.com) tonight - thought some of
you who are just getting started on robotics might find a use for
them. This guy has 25 ISA-bus cards with 3 relays on each one,
controllable via software. I would guess you could put more than one
in a PC. It's a "dutch" auction, so even though the "low" bid is
$15.00 each, only 3 have been spoken for, so you could still "win"
with a bid of $2 or $5 or something. It ends at 01:50 PDT on 6/20/98
(1:50am on Saturday morning, so you don't have a lot of time. I have
no connection with this; just saw it and thought it might be neat to
have if you were planning on building a robot using an old PC
motherboard. Just point your browser to:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D17850191

-------------------------------------==================================================================================

PC Relay Card with 3 relays NEWItem #17359818

These are brand new cards and are made by Computer Boards Inc. Each
card has 3 Relays with normally open and normally closed contacts and
can be controlled directly through the register, These cards can be
used for many applications such as switching on/off fans or other
equipment. They sell for $69.95 ea. Technical data can be obtained
from Computer Boards Inc. http://www.computerboards.com Model
CIO-RELAY03 Buyer will have to pay shipping.=20
-Bill Richman
bill_r@inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

------------------------------

From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 01:35:39 GMT
Subject: PC Relay Card with 3 relays

Oops - sorry. The address for the relay card should have been:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D17359818

The other one was for an IR communication system, which might also be
cool for robots... =20
-Bill Richman
bill_r@inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

------------------------------

From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 03:19:26 GMT
Subject: Re: ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD

I thought it sucked, personally. It's a rehash of things you can
easily find web pages about. The pictures look like they were taken
with a black-and-white QuickCam that had been dropped one too many
times. The projects were, with one or two possible exceptions, pretty
boring and/or pointless, and some of the stuff they obviously just
pulled out of their animatronic a**. For instance, the robotic fish
tail. Okay - cute. Not sure what it's good for, but whatever. But
then they paste in a picture of a rubber trout or something, and
suggest how you might jam the assembly into that and have a robot
fish. Uhhh - guys. Aside from the fact that I doubt the motor you
used could bend the rubber fish tail in addition to the weight of the
water, there's a little more to a robotic fish than that. Ditto the
"android hand". They cut up a somewhat cool robotic-looking plastic
hand and hang some "air muscles" off it to bend the fingers. Okay -
it's kind of clever. Then they slap in a picture of one of those fake
latex hands and imply that you can somehow jam this whole mess (which
can probably generate just about enough pull to bend the fingers by
themselves) into this thick rubber thing, and have a working android
hand. Again, I don't think so. Maybe I'm just jaded, but most of
their "projects" are pretty sad. The build-up on the back of the book
makes it sound like you'll end up with "Commander Data" or something,
whereas you will actually get a bunch of plastic bits with motors
bolted on that twitch when power is applied. I'd say search the web,
and spend the price of the book toward a BASIC stamp or some servos to
play with instead. ("Nossir - I didn't like it. I didn't like it one
bit.")

Eck Timothy J wrote:
>
>> Can you tell us more about what's in it? Animatronics or robotics or
>> ???? Are the projects worth the buy?
>>
>> -Tim Eck

-Bill Richman
bill_r@inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 169
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 173

------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:26:42 -0400
Subject: MIDI Stuff

I just got an update message from this web sight that I had visited
before... so I was reminded of their products and figgured some of you here
might be interested in them.
They sell MIDI based kits (Or were they finished products? Sorry, my
memory is vague on this) That will accept MIDI data and close a relay (up to
128) and other products that will send out MIDI data when an electrical
contact is closed plus other similar products.

Here is their info...
-==================================================================================
Chris Bartlett
MIDItools Sales Manager PAVO, Inc.
http://www.pavo.com
mailto:chris@pavo.com

Here is their URL to the actual MIDI stuff: http://www.pavo.com/midi/
-------------------------------

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 173
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ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 174

------------------------------==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:12:42 EDT
Subject: Re: MIDI Stuff

y'know since we're on the MIDI subject again . . i guess I should mention a
place that I've been forgetting about too . . . it's . .
http://www.jlcooper.com

I knew about them from when I was addicted to Keyboards (and Midi) from years
back and they're pretty much KNOWN for low prices for midi / smpte / audio
syncronization devices .

I Definitely like the PAVO site for the primary devices such as . . .
- - - - - - - -
NEW! 64- or 128-Output Driver Independently control 64 high-current sink
outputs from MIDI Note on/off commands. Connect drivers to control any
combination of relays, solenoids, electromagnets, or even low-current
devices. Add a second expansion board and get 128 drivers total! Item 00314
(Complete Rackmount Kit w/64 Drivers) $325, Item 00315 (Complete Rackmount Kit
w/128 Drivers) $425, Item 00140 (64-Driver Expansion Board Kit only) $100,
Item 00138 (PROMpack only) $45
- - - - - - - -

but when it comes to stuff like the midi-filter (able to filter out certain
kinds of midi data) . . . I'm still used to seeing super-low prices that you
see "as a musician" .

If anybody starts (or Is) working with midi . . i'd Definitely suggest looking
at sites like Pavo, and Mediamations, and (a few others i'm forgetting because
it's 5:00am :) . . . looking at sites like those for the Major-components As
Well As scouring the more seemingly "music related" sites . . especially if
you know what you need but you'd like to find some Reeaally Really good
discounts on the products !
(www.Roguemusic.com in NY comes to mind)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress . . . still :(
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

(For instance .. If anybody sees a jl-cooper PPS-100 or whatever . . ( that
stands for "poor persons smpte" ) . . . That's a device that lets you
syncronize a midi-device to a tape-recorder . . . (it records a sync tone
onto the tape . . then when the tape runs . . it hears the tone and pumps out
a syncronized midi-clock-signal that you can send to a midi-sequencer (midi
recorder) that you'd connect to something like the $200 mediamations midi-to-
servo card.) . . . the pps-100 was Everywhere for $99 when it came out new
.

Korg also had an 8-track midi-recorder out for under $200 so you wouldn't need
a computer .

JL-Cooper also has / had a simpler midi-controller then they have on their
web-site now that let you send out 8 midi-control-signals through the faders.

I've heard alot about lighting equipment also but havn't really looked into it
yet .

and in case you don't care about midi . . . . . . hey'd anybody see
"www.the-robotman.com" yet ?! :)

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 174
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ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 179

------------------------------==================================================================================

From: Paul Workman <paulcw@best.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Advice on making latex puppet?

I'm trying to make an animatronic puppet. All I'm trying to make is the
head and a little big of the torso. The mouth doesn't need to move but
the eyes should blink. I'm trying to avoid the complications of things
like motors, so for blinking eyes I thought I'd try using bicycle cables
to move them.

This puppet doesn't need to look human, or otherwise recognizably real.
All I want to do is avoid making it look too inorganic, too man-made.

So I thought I'd skip stuff like casting a person's head, and just make it
with cloth over a styrofoam skull, then paint liquid latex over the cloth,
trying to get a skin effect.

My question is, am I approaching this in a reasonable way? Would latex
over cloth work, and if so would felt be an appropriate cloth or should I
use something else? Since I'm only trying to get an organic look, not a
really anatomically-correct (so to speak) look, I was hoping to avoid
things like casting a real-life model, or using harder-to-deal-with
materials like foam latex. I tried some experiments with latex over cloth
and...it's a wash...I get the impression that it might work if done right,
but I probably am not doing it right.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

--Paul

------------------------------

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:23:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

I would recommend starting with one of the casting processes. Here is a
brief overview of the process, perhaps others can chime in with more detail,
or even better, books to buy which describe the process.
Basically, you sculpt the original in a water based clay (it can be done
with oil based clay, but the oils can interfere with some casting processes,
so I think it is best to start with water based)
For starters, I recommend just making a one-part mold. That is, just make
the sculpture of the front half of the face, leaving the back half flat
against the table (or the piece of wood you do it on). Then the next step is
to make a plaster mold, it is best to use pottery plaster, but most kinds
can work. Start by putting some sort of barrier around your sculpture, or
just put your clay sculpture into some sort of container resting flat
against the bottom. Then pour the liquid plaster into the container
completely covering your sculpture.
After it has set, you can remove the plaster, and the clay model will be
visible on the underside. Remove the clay and wash the mold out, then set
the mold aside to dry for a day or so. What you have ended up with is a
hollow plaster mold of your original.
To use it, turn it upside down from the way you first formed the mold, so
you have a bowl shape. Pour in about any kind of latex. If it is slip-cast
latex, fill this "bowl" and let sit for 30 minutes to an hour, depending on
the thickness needed, then pour out the remaining liquid (it can be re-used)
and allow the remaining skin to dry overnight before removing it. Or, if the
latex is made for "slush casting", just "slush" it around in the mold untill
you build up a thick enough layer.

For an illustration of this process visit Steve Axtell's web page and see
his "how the puppets are made" section. His URL is http://www.axtell.com I
know there are other web sights that may be more focused on what you want to
do, but his is also the only one I know off the top of my head. He is also a
good artist, and his puppets project their character very well visually.

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 179
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 180

------------------------------==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:53:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

> I tried some experiments with latex over cloth
and...it's a wash...I get the impression that it might work if done right,
but I probably am not doing it right.

There Probably IS a way to do it . . but yeah I havn't gotten to it yet either
.
I HAVE seen a friend of mine layer latex over spongy-foam (the type from
furniture more-or-less)
He basically glues the sheets of foam together into the correct shape then
just dips pieces of paper-towels into latex and brushes them on .

The foam ends up being durable enough to hold it's own shape so there's no
need for much of an understructure . (Great for building large costumes and
displays quickly and cheaply )

(we even made a mermaid costume for a Camay ad . . well . . ok "I" only
helped for about 5 minutes . . . but it was still cool to see it in a french
fashion magazine like that :)

you can even Wrinkle the towels to make a rough texture for the skin .

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

i wish i could remember how the Muppets are made :(

------------------------------

From: "Michael Doliveck" <mikaku@whyweb.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:00:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

hello
re: pauls question
>I'm trying to make an animatronic puppet. All I'm trying to make is the
>head and a little big of the torso. The mouth doesn't need to move but
>the eyes should blink. I'm trying to avoid the complications of things
>like motors, so for blinking eyes I thought I'd try using bicycle cables
>to move them.

my suggestion would be a soft silicone for the skin instead of laytex. it
will move like real skin and is easier to use if youd like more info you can
reach me directly (see below)
hope its helpful,
michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael Doliveck mikaku@whyweb.com
177 Pacific Street #206
Santa Monica, CA 90405
(310) 581-1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Om Mani Padma Hum

------------------------------

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:46:24 -0700
Subject: Update

Hi everyone,

At last count there were 94 of us on this list.

I am learning the tricks of heat forming sheet plexi-glass into 3-D
shapes.

Is there any advice or reference material I should be checking out?

--
Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL
Cherryland Robotics Div.
1892 Pinewood Ave.
Traverse City, MI 49684
(616) 946-0187, FAX (616) 946-1122
pgrayson@traverse.com

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 180
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 181

------------------------------==================================================================================

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:13:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Update

>I am learning the tricks of heat forming sheet plexi-glass into 3-D
shapes.

details details :)
You got your own home-made (or pre-made) vacuform table ?
What sized sheets are you dealing with ??

I know "a couple" tips . . mostly from the trials of working with my friends
4x5-foot home-built table . . . ( but that's another long email :(

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

I just made a pocket-vacuform outta cardboard :) lol (works good too)
( used it to form some eye-sockets and eye-lids from styrene )

------------------------------

From: Monta Elkins <monta@bev.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:17:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

Michael Doliveck wrote:

> my suggestion would be a soft silicone for the skin instead of laytex. it
> will move like real skin and is easier to use if youd like more info you can
> reach me directly (see below)

What's a good source of soft silicon?
Is it used like laytex?

--
-Monta Elkins

------------------------------

From: Steve Millward <millstev@isu.edu>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:22:01 -0600
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

Michael Doliveck wrote:
>
> hello
> re: pauls question
> >I'm trying to make an animatronic puppet. All I'm trying to make is the
> >head and a little big of the torso. The mouth doesn't need to move but
> >the eyes should blink. I'm trying to avoid the complications of things
> >like motors, so for blinking eyes I thought I'd try using bicycle cables
> >to move them.
>
> my suggestion would be a soft silicone for the skin instead of laytex. it
> will move like real skin and is easier to use .......(clippedP

Michael, what kind of "soft silicone" are you talking about, how do you
cast it, and what do you do about painting it, and why do you think it
is better than latex?

Steve Millward

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 181
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 182

------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Doliveck" <mikaku@whyweb.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:15:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

soft silicone

ive recieved many questions on this subject
the truth is it couldnt be easier to use. if you can mix a few components
together you can do it.
Circle K Products (909) 695 1955- carries GI245- a silicone with a shore 25
on the 00 scale and with different percentages of plasticizer* it can be
brought off the 00 scale.

*Circle K carries a unique plasticizer to use with the 245, its called A2
and actually chemically crosslinks in the silicone to greatly reduce the
leeching.-noone else carries a product like it.

you just mix and poor. it is best to let it cure overnite but ive made
skins in less than 3 hours with good results.

it can be colored intrinsically or extrinsically with almost anty tint or
pigment. silicone based pigment is best but ive used everything from makeup
to oil paint.

there is so much information and amazing things that can be done with
silicone.
contact circkle K directly for more info- im also happy to help you out.

best regards,
michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael Doliveck mikaku@whyweb.com
177 Pacific Street #206
Santa Monica, CA 90405
(310) 581-1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Om Mani Padma Hum

------------------------------

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 182
*******************************************************

Archives - ( page 10 )

From ANIMATRONICS-L Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:55:00 local from fatcity
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:55:00
X-Digest: Yes
To: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com
From: ANIMATRONICS-L@fatcity.com (Animatronics Mailing List)
Subject: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 165

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:36:44 -0700
Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 164

Get it from amazon.com and you can save about $4.00. When I ordered mine,
it was here in a couple of days.

Mark Lipsky

> From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:30:45 -0700
> Subject: How to get started
>
>Dear List,
>I have just been reading:
>
>ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD,
>by John Iovine, c1998, McGraw-Hill (about $19.00)
>
>It is a good survey of the field.
>Each of the current areas of robot research have been mentioned and
>there are projects that are easy to build which highlight many of the
>technologies mentioned.

------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eck Timothy J" <eckt@warp.msoe.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:49:37 -0500
Re: ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 164

Can you tell us more about what's in it? Animatronics or robotics or
???? Are the projects worth the buy?

-Tim Eck

> Get it from amazon.com and you can save about $4.00. When I ordered mine,
> it was here in a couple of days.
>
> Mark Lipsky
>
>
>
> > From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
> > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:30:45 -0700
> > Subject: How to get started
> >
> >Dear List,
> >I have just been reading:
> >
> >ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD,
> >by John Iovine, c1998, McGraw-Hill (about $19.00)
> >
> >It is a good survey of the field.
> >Each of the current areas of robot research have been mentioned and
> >there are projects that are easy to build which highlight many of the
> >technologies mentioned.
>
> --------------------------
> Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
> E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
> EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****
>
>
> --
> Author: Mark Lipsky
> INET: mlipsky@effecteng.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> -------------------------
>
==================================================================================

From: Steve Millward <millstev@isu.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:35:29 -0600
Subject: Re: How to get started

Hello,
Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
lights, and sound. Thanks

Steve Millward

==================================================================================

From: Monta Elkins <monta@bev.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:00:32 -0400
Subject: Re: ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD

It's like a cookbook of small systems.
(I've just skimmed it so far...)
ultrasonic rangefinding, IR dectors. air muscles.

After I get a chance to read it, I'll post a review if
noone else has by then.

-Monta

Eck Timothy J wrote:

> Can you tell us more about what's in it? Animatronics or robotics or
> ???? Are the projects worth the buy?
>
> -Tim Eck
>
> > > From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
> > > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:30:45 -0700
> > > Subject: How to get started
> > >
> > >Dear List,
> > >I have just been reading:
> > >
> > >ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD,
> > >by John Iovine, c1998, McGraw-Hill (about $19.00)
> > >
> >

--
-Monta Elkins

----------------------------
"And the world will be better for this: That one man scorned and
covered with scars, still strove with his last ounce of courage;
to reach the unreachable stars"
System Administrator - Blacksburg Electronic Village - www.bev.net
monta@bev.net - http://www.bev.net/project/people/monta
---------------------------

==================================================================================

From: Charlie Richmond <charlier@show-control.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:35:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: How to get started

On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Steve Millward wrote:

> Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
> robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
> lights, and sound. Thanks

The company that we know of which has the most experience (and does it all
the time....) is Mediamation in Torrance, CA. Send email to Dan Jamele at
mediamat@aol.com or call them at +1-310/320 0696.

Tell them Charlie Richmond referred you ....

Good luck!

Charlie

"AudioBox 16x16 matrix w/8 track Hard Disk Sync/Wild Playback"
"-------- TCI Sound Product of the Year Award - 1998 --------"
+- Charlie Richmond-Richmond Sound Design-Vancouver, Canada -+
+ http://www.show-control.com http://www.theatre-sound.com +
+ Join our mailing list - mailto: majordomo@show-control.com +
+----------- put in message body: subscribe rsd-pr ----------+
+------ Sound & Show Control for Live Shows since 1972 ------+

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:25:49 -0400
Subject: MIDI controlers

>Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
>robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
>lights, and sound. Thanks
>
>Steve Millward

This has been discussed a month or so ago, but I don't know if there are
any archives for the list (is there?).
Anyway, I haven't gotten to try it out yet, but a company called
Mediamation sells a MIDI-to-Servo board that costs around $200. You have to
supply your own power supply, but I haven't come across anything else in
that price range. It will control 8 servos, and you can configure it for
either low or high resolution. But that setting is for all 8 servos, and it
seems like MIDI doesn't have enough bandwidth to do all 8 moving at the same
time in high resolution.
Has anyone here tried this board?

their URL is http://www.mediamat.com

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 166
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 167

From: Mark Lipsky <mlipsky@effecteng.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:16:37 -0700
Subject: Re: How to get started

I think the equipment from Media Mation is MIDI based:

Media Mation
2461 West 205th Street, Suite B100
Torrance, CA 90501

(310) 320-0696
FAX (310) 320-0699
mediamat@aol.com

They have a web site, I believe, but I don't know the address.

Mark Lipsky

> From: Steve Millward <millstev@isu.edu>
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:35:29 -0600
> Subject: Re: How to get started
>
>Hello,
>Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
>robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
>lights, and sound. Thanks
>
>Steve Millward

--------------------------
Mark Lipsky, San Diego, CA
E-Mail: mlipsky@effecteng.com Web: http://www.trix.com/effective/
EFFECTive ENGINEERING ****IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, WE CAN BUILD IT****

==================================================================================

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 167
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 168

From: Steve Millward <millstev@isu.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:19:13 -0600
Subject: Re: MIDI controlers - Thanks !!

Thanks so much to Joe and everyone else that replied to my inquiry. I
really appreciate it.

Steve Millward

Joe Dunfee wrote:
>
> >Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
> >robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
> >lights, and sound. Thanks
> >
> >Steve Millward
>
> This has been discussed a month or so ago, but I don't know if there are
> any archives for the list (is there?).
> Anyway, I haven't gotten to try it out yet, but a company called
> Mediamation sells a MIDI-to-Servo board that costs around $200. You have to
> supply your own power supply, but I haven't come across anything else in
> that price range. It will control 8 servos, and you can configure it for
> either low or high resolution. But that setting is for all 8 servos, and it
> seems like MIDI doesn't have enough bandwidth to do all 8 moving at the same
> time in high resolution.
> Has anyone here tried this board?
>
> their URL is http://www.mediamat.com
>
> Joe Dunfee
> Miami, Florida USA
>
> --
> Author: Joe Dunfee
> INET: jdunfee@shadow.net
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (619) 538-5051 FAX: (619) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> -------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ANIMATRONICS-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

==================================================================================

From: Bruce_Bergman@smtpgate.mitchell.com (Bruce Bergman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:07:02 -0700
Subject: Re: MIDI controlers

Hi Everyone...

Yes, the list is archived. To get help with any of the features of
ListGuru, send an E-mail message to:

ListGuru@fatcity.com

And in the message BODY, put:

HELP

If you want to see what is archived for this list, put:

INDEX ANIMATRONICS-L

If you want to get the table of contents, put:

GET ANIMATRONICS-L CONTENTS.TXT

If you want to get a particular file, put:

GET ANIMATRONICS-L <filename>

Etc. Enjoy!

thanks,

bruce

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: MIDI controlers
Author: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net> at SMTPGate-Mitchell
Date: 06/16/1998 17:32

>Can anyone on this list tell me if they have done any controlling of
>robots, etc. using MIDI? In particular, I mean stuff besides music,
>lights, and sound. Thanks
>
>Steve Millward

This has been discussed a month or so ago, but I don't know if there are
any archives for the list (is there?).

==================================================================================

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 168
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 169

From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 01:28:04 GMT
Subject: PC Relay Card with 3 relays

Spotted the following on eBay (www.ebay.com) tonight - thought some of
you who are just getting started on robotics might find a use for
them. This guy has 25 ISA-bus cards with 3 relays on each one,
controllable via software. I would guess you could put more than one
in a PC. It's a "dutch" auction, so even though the "low" bid is
$15.00 each, only 3 have been spoken for, so you could still "win"
with a bid of $2 or $5 or something. It ends at 01:50 PDT on 6/20/98
(1:50am on Saturday morning, so you don't have a lot of time. I have
no connection with this; just saw it and thought it might be neat to
have if you were planning on building a robot using an old PC
motherboard. Just point your browser to:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D17850191

-------------------------------------==================================================================================

PC Relay Card with 3 relays NEWItem #17359818

These are brand new cards and are made by Computer Boards Inc. Each
card has 3 Relays with normally open and normally closed contacts and
can be controlled directly through the register, These cards can be
used for many applications such as switching on/off fans or other
equipment. They sell for $69.95 ea. Technical data can be obtained
from Computer Boards Inc. http://www.computerboards.com Model
CIO-RELAY03 Buyer will have to pay shipping.=20
-Bill Richman
bill_r@inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

==================================================================================

From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 01:35:39 GMT
Subject: PC Relay Card with 3 relays

Oops - sorry. The address for the relay card should have been:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D17359818

The other one was for an IR communication system, which might also be
cool for robots... =20
-Bill Richman
bill_r@inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

==================================================================================

From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 03:19:26 GMT
Subject: Re: ROBOTS, ANDROIDS, AND ANIMATRONS: 12 INCREDIBLE PROJECTS YOU CAN BUILD

I thought it sucked, personally. It's a rehash of things you can
easily find web pages about. The pictures look like they were taken
with a black-and-white QuickCam that had been dropped one too many
times. The projects were, with one or two possible exceptions, pretty
boring and/or pointless, and some of the stuff they obviously just
pulled out of their animatronic a**. For instance, the robotic fish
tail. Okay - cute. Not sure what it's good for, but whatever. But
then they paste in a picture of a rubber trout or something, and
suggest how you might jam the assembly into that and have a robot
fish. Uhhh - guys. Aside from the fact that I doubt the motor you
used could bend the rubber fish tail in addition to the weight of the
water, there's a little more to a robotic fish than that. Ditto the
"android hand". They cut up a somewhat cool robotic-looking plastic
hand and hang some "air muscles" off it to bend the fingers. Okay -
it's kind of clever. Then they slap in a picture of one of those fake
latex hands and imply that you can somehow jam this whole mess (which
can probably generate just about enough pull to bend the fingers by
themselves) into this thick rubber thing, and have a working android
hand. Again, I don't think so. Maybe I'm just jaded, but most of
their "projects" are pretty sad. The build-up on the back of the book
makes it sound like you'll end up with "Commander Data" or something,
whereas you will actually get a bunch of plastic bits with motors
bolted on that twitch when power is applied. I'd say search the web,
and spend the price of the book toward a BASIC stamp or some servos to
play with instead. ("Nossir - I didn't like it. I didn't like it one
bit.")

Eck Timothy J wrote:
>
>> Can you tell us more about what's in it? Animatronics or robotics or
>> ???? Are the projects worth the buy?
>>
>> -Tim Eck

-Bill Richman
bill_r@inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

==================================================================================

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 169
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 173

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:26:42 -0400
Subject: MIDI Stuff

I just got an update message from this web sight that I had visited
before... so I was reminded of their products and figgured some of you here
might be interested in them.
They sell MIDI based kits (Or were they finished products? Sorry, my
memory is vague on this) That will accept MIDI data and close a relay (up to
128) and other products that will send out MIDI data when an electrical
contact is closed plus other similar products.

Here is their info...
-==================================================================================
Chris Bartlett
MIDItools Sales Manager PAVO, Inc.
http://www.pavo.com
mailto:chris@pavo.com

Here is their URL to the actual MIDI stuff: http://www.pavo.com/midi/
-==================================================================================

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 173
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 174

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:12:42 EDT
Subject: Re: MIDI Stuff

y'know since we're on the MIDI subject again . . i guess I should mention a
place that I've been forgetting about too . . . it's . .
http://www.jlcooper.com

I knew about them from when I was addicted to Keyboards (and Midi) from years
back and they're pretty much KNOWN for low prices for midi / smpte / audio
syncronization devices .

I Definitely like the PAVO site for the primary devices such as . . .
- - - - - - - -
NEW! 64- or 128-Output Driver Independently control 64 high-current sink
outputs from MIDI Note on/off commands. Connect drivers to control any
combination of relays, solenoids, electromagnets, or even low-current
devices. Add a second expansion board and get 128 drivers total! Item 00314
(Complete Rackmount Kit w/64 Drivers) $325, Item 00315 (Complete Rackmount Kit
w/128 Drivers) $425, Item 00140 (64-Driver Expansion Board Kit only) $100,
Item 00138 (PROMpack only) $45
- - - - - - - -

but when it comes to stuff like the midi-filter (able to filter out certain
kinds of midi data) . . . I'm still used to seeing super-low prices that you
see "as a musician" .

If anybody starts (or Is) working with midi . . i'd Definitely suggest looking
at sites like Pavo, and Mediamations, and (a few others i'm forgetting because
it's 5:00am :) . . . looking at sites like those for the Major-components As
Well As scouring the more seemingly "music related" sites . . especially if
you know what you need but you'd like to find some Reeaally Really good
discounts on the products !
(www.Roguemusic.com in NY comes to mind)

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress . . . still :(
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

(For instance .. If anybody sees a jl-cooper PPS-100 or whatever . . ( that
stands for "poor persons smpte" ) . . . That's a device that lets you
syncronize a midi-device to a tape-recorder . . . (it records a sync tone
onto the tape . . then when the tape runs . . it hears the tone and pumps out
a syncronized midi-clock-signal that you can send to a midi-sequencer (midi
recorder) that you'd connect to something like the $200 mediamations midi-to-
servo card.) . . . the pps-100 was Everywhere for $99 when it came out new
.

Korg also had an 8-track midi-recorder out for under $200 so you wouldn't need
a computer .

JL-Cooper also has / had a simpler midi-controller then they have on their
web-site now that let you send out 8 midi-control-signals through the faders.

I've heard alot about lighting equipment also but havn't really looked into it
yet .

and in case you don't care about midi . . . . . . hey'd anybody see
"www.the-robotman.com" yet ?! :)

==================================================================================

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 174
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 175

From: Paul Workman <paulcw@best.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Advice on making latex puppet?

I'm trying to make an animatronic puppet. All I'm trying to make is the
head and a little big of the torso. The mouth doesn't need to move but
the eyes should blink. I'm trying to avoid the complications of things
like motors, so for blinking eyes I thought I'd try using bicycle cables
to move them.

This puppet doesn't need to look human, or otherwise recognizably real.
All I want to do is avoid making it look too inorganic, too man-made.

So I thought I'd skip stuff like casting a person's head, and just make it
with cloth over a styrofoam skull, then paint liquid latex over the cloth,
trying to get a skin effect.

My question is, am I approaching this in a reasonable way? Would latex
over cloth work, and if so would felt be an appropriate cloth or should I
use something else? Since I'm only trying to get an organic look, not a
really anatomically-correct (so to speak) look, I was hoping to avoid
things like casting a real-life model, or using harder-to-deal-with
materials like foam latex. I tried some experiments with latex over cloth
and...it's a wash...I get the impression that it might work if done right,
but I probably am not doing it right.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

--Paul

==================================================================================

From: Joe Dunfee <jdunfee@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:23:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

I would recommend starting with one of the casting processes. Here is a
brief overview of the process, perhaps others can chime in with more detail,
or even better, books to buy which describe the process.
Basically, you sculpt the original in a water based clay (it can be done
with oil based clay, but the oils can interfere with some casting processes,
so I think it is best to start with water based)
For starters, I recommend just making a one-part mold. That is, just make
the sculpture of the front half of the face, leaving the back half flat
against the table (or the piece of wood you do it on). Then the next step is
to make a plaster mold, it is best to use pottery plaster, but most kinds
can work. Start by putting some sort of barrier around your sculpture, or
just put your clay sculpture into some sort of container resting flat
against the bottom. Then pour the liquid plaster into the container
completely covering your sculpture.
After it has set, you can remove the plaster, and the clay model will be
visible on the underside. Remove the clay and wash the mold out, then set
the mold aside to dry for a day or so. What you have ended up with is a
hollow plaster mold of your original.
To use it, turn it upside down from the way you first formed the mold, so
you have a bowl shape. Pour in about any kind of latex. If it is slip-cast
latex, fill this "bowl" and let sit for 30 minutes to an hour, depending on
the thickness needed, then pour out the remaining liquid (it can be re-used)
and allow the remaining skin to dry overnight before removing it. Or, if the
latex is made for "slush casting", just "slush" it around in the mold untill
you build up a thick enough layer.

For an illustration of this process visit Steve Axtell's web page and see
his "how the puppets are made" section. His URL is http://www.axtell.com I
know there are other web sights that may be more focused on what you want to
do, but his is also the only one I know off the top of my head. He is also a
good artist, and his puppets project their character very well visually.

Joe Dunfee
Miami, Florida USA

==================================================================================

End Of ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 179
*******************************************************
ANIMATRONICS-L Digest -- Volume 1998, Number 180

From: C40179@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:53:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

> I tried some experiments with latex over cloth
and...it's a wash...I get the impression that it might work if done right,
but I probably am not doing it right.

There Probably IS a way to do it . . but yeah I havn't gotten to it yet either
.
I HAVE seen a friend of mine layer latex over spongy-foam (the type from
furniture more-or-less)
He basically glues the sheets of foam together into the correct shape then
just dips pieces of paper-towels into latex and brushes them on .

The foam ends up being durable enough to hold it's own shape so there's no
need for much of an understructure . (Great for building large costumes and
displays quickly and cheaply )

(we even made a mermaid costume for a Camay ad . . well . . ok "I" only
helped for about 5 minutes . . . but it was still cool to see it in a french
fashion magazine like that :)

you can even Wrinkle the towels to make a rough texture for the skin .

Chris Hillman
Animatronics guy (in progress)
http://members.aol.com/robotweb
c40179@aol.com

i wish i could remember how the Muppets are made :(

==================================================================================

From: "Michael Doliveck" <mikaku@whyweb.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:00:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Advice on making latex puppet?

hello
re: pauls question
>I'm trying to make an animatronic puppet. All I'm trying to make is the
>head and a little big of the torso. The mouth doesn't need to move but
>the eyes should blink. I'm trying to avoid the complications of things
>like motors, so for blinking eyes I thought I'd try using bicycle cables
>to move them.

my suggestion would be a soft silicone for the skin instead of laytex. it
will move like real skin and is easier to use if youd like more info you can
reach me directly (see below)
hope its helpful,
michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael Doliveck mikaku@whyweb.com
177 Pacific Street #206
Santa Monica, CA 90405
(310) 581-1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Om Mani Padma Hum

==================================================================================

From: "Paul F. Grayson, Chief Engineer" <pgrayson@traverse.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:46:24 -0700
Subject: Update

Hi everyone,

At last count there were 94 of us on this list.

I am learning the tricks of heat forming sheet plexi-glass into 3-D